Mel Kiper wrong again

[wolverinejoe80]

i know all about Funchess (check my username).

my take on Funchess

1. if he produced this year, he would've been a top 10 pick. physically he is a freak. but he is immature. mentally not strong. i expect him to do all the drills well with 4.5 speed. i expect him to be a legit 6ft 4.
2. he didn't produce and that's his fault. we had a bad QB, but still no excuse. at times you think he would take over the game, but he disappeared alot.
3. he runs low. i like that about him. fluid hip actually for his size.
4. he doesn't attack the ball.
5. i just think he isn't well coached.
6. he isn't a leader.
7. he will wow you at the combine.
8. he is not the smartest guy.
9. if he pans out he would extend brady's career.
10. he is not a deep threat. i repeat, he is not a deep threat. but he can be brandon marshall type.

40 inch vertical with 4.5 speed at 6ft 4. late 1st round grade is about right. he is a project. he will have to learn the position. remember he played TE most of his career. his transition to WR wasn't so smooth against a better competition.

i would love to see us getting this type of player in the 2nd round. but definitely not the 1st.

 

[RayClay]

The so called espn "expert" is predicting that the pats draft funchess the wr out of michigan. Does Mel not know that Edelman and Lafell had a very strong end of season run with Jules arguably the MVP of sb 49. The real areas of need for the team is on the O line and replacing our best DT with a younger version. How did old Mel even get that gig anyway?

Opportunist. He pretended to be a draft expert like Buschbaum and people believed it.

 

[mayoclinic]

Opportunist. He pretended to be a draft expert like Buschbaum and people believed it.

Buschbaum was old school, and darn good. Substance over style. He is missed.

 

[RayClay]

Buschbaum was old school, and darn good. Substance over style. He is missed.

I saved his column for years about what a mess the patriots and their salaries were when BB took over. He interviewed league front offices and the patriots were voted least likely to win the SB in 2001.

 

[captain stone]

I believe that Bill attended Buschbaum's funeral. Can't imagine that happening for anyone else
in the press, ever again.

 

[patfanken]

I repeat Funchess is a ridiculous pick for the Pats in ANY round let a lone the first. Just another attempt by the cult that worships at the feet of the WR god to defy logic by continually demand every pick be a WR. OMG look at the vertical! OMG look at the 40 time (which is mediocre btw). Why don't you look at the real facts The facts that question his toughness, question his hands, questions his ability to go after 50-50 balls, questions his route running, questions his YAC ability, and questions his intelligence and football instincts. Yeah right, sounds like perfect fit for a system like the Pats.

I mean my head almost exploded while reading this thread. Has everyone simply forgotten that Aaron Dobson is still on the team. You know the guy who put up more yardage in his rookie season than ANY rookie WR in the BB era. A guy who is of a similar size to Funchess, already has 2 years of mental experience in the system, has better hands, quicker feet, more speed, and has answered many questions that Funchess has yet to answer. I mean WTF!!!!!!!

I can't believe how so many have dismissed Dobson already. Out of sight out mind syndrome, I guess. Probably the same people who summarily dismissed Amendola for the last 2 seasons. Those small minded or misguided individuals who DON'T understand how injuries and being forced to play BEHIND someone and not getting targets, can create an impression that you aren't any good

Have we forgotten so soon how these SAME people were ready to jettison Edelman because they couldn't understand that his lack of production was caused by injury and having to play behind Welker, NOT because he wasn't talented ....as he has shown the last 2 seasons, where he wasn't injured and GOT the targets. These are the same people who crucified Amendola the last 2 years as an abject bust, when the last 5 games proved beyond a doubt that all he needed to be was healthy and get regular looks and he too would produce at a 100 catch 1000 yd. level. NO ONE can put up big numbers when you are the 4th or 5th look on every pass play.

If we have the TWO prime examples of what can happen when a player stays healthy gets a decent number of looks from the QB, and has a few years in the system, why the F, do we summarily dismiss a guy who has shown stretches of good play as a rookie, and had a year where he got hurt early, never caught up, and sat behind a group that was playing well. Its not like these example happened on other teams, they were right in front of us. We, as intelligent fans, should know better.

Between Dobsonn, Tyms, and the Players already under contract, I don't see anyone we could possible draft where we draft that would have any more raw physical skills than what we already have. Do you really think Funchess is a better athlete than Dobson OR Tyms, Not by anything I've read.

 

[manxman2601]

Are we talking about the Dobson and Tyms that didn't even dress for most games? Yep, we should be basing our draft strategy around them.

 

[Off The Grid]

I saved his column for years about what a mess the patriots and their salaries were when BB took over.

He interviewed league front offices and the patriots were voted least likely to win the SB in 2001.

I predicted that the Patriots would go 3-13 in 2001, though when Mad Bill suspended Terry Glenn ~ who most Fans considered our entire Offense ~ for the entire Season I bumped it to 4-12!! True Story!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Are we talking about the Dobson and Tyms that didn't even dress for most games? Yep, we should be basing our draft strategy around them.

Could somebody please Cut & Paste Brother Manx's post into Word and repost it, please? It's just coming up blank for me, for some reason...Could it be the SarcasmBlocker 7.0 that runs on my Computer?

 

[Off The Grid]

PatKen's Screeching, Shouting, SnotBubbling Rant, Version 8,347.0

Great Post, Ken. You brought up some interesting, well-reasoned, and clearly level-headed Points.

 

[patfanken]

I saved his column for years about what a mess the patriots and their salaries were when BB took over. He interviewed league front offices and the patriots were voted least likely to win the SB in 2001.

I wish it was even THAT positive. In an article in April of 2001 (IIRC), he wrote that the Pats were the LEAST likely NFL team to just MAKE it to the superbowl, not win it, and not just in 2001, but over the next FIVE years.

He was one of the best football analysts of his time, but he really got THAT one wrong.

BTW, it should be noted, that back in the off season before the 2001 season, there weren't many Pats fans who disagreed with any of his conclusions.

BTW-2 I have always believed that 2001 was a complete outlier. Probably as big a surprise to BB as it was to the rest of the world. But what people where completely missing was what BB was building for the long haul. The 9-7 2002 team was more a realistic and expected progression of the plan. That team was missing some top pieces and depth. One day BB is going to tell us that 2001 was a shock, but 2003, 4 and all the successful years after were planned for and expected results of a well thought out system of team building

 

[patfanken]

Great Post, Ken. You brought up some interesting, well-reasoned, and clearly level-headed Points.

Thank you. I consider that high praise, given the source.

 

[mayoclinic]

I repeat Funchess is a ridiculous pick for the Pats in ANY round let a lone the first. Just another attempt by the cult that worships at the feet of the WR god to defy logic by continually demand every pick be a WR. OMG look at the vertical! OMG look at the 40 time (which is mediocre btw). Why don't you look at the real facts The facts that question his toughness, question his hands, questions his ability to go after 50-50 balls, questions his route running, questions his YAC ability, and questions his intelligence and football instincts. Yeah right, sounds like perfect fit for a system like the Pats.

I mean my head almost exploded while reading this thread. Has everyone simply forgotten that Aaron Dobson is still on the team. You know the guy who put up more yardage in his rookie season than ANY rookie WR in the BB era. A guy who is of a similar size to Funchess, already has 2 years of mental experience in the system, has better hands, quicker feet, more speed, and has answered many questions that Funchess has yet to answer. I mean WTF!!!!!!!

I can't believe how so many have dismissed Dobson already. Out of sight out mind syndrome, I guess. Probably the same people who summarily dismissed Amendola for the last 2 seasons. Those small minded or misguided individuals who DON'T understand how injuries and being forced to play BEHIND someone and not getting targets, can create an impression that you aren't any good

Have we forgotten so soon how these SAME people were ready to jettison Edelman because they couldn't understand that his lack of production was caused by injury and having to play behind Welker, NOT because he wasn't talented ....as he has shown the last 2 seasons, where he wasn't injured and GOT the targets. These are the same people who crucified Amendola the last 2 years as an abject bust, when the last 5 games proved beyond a doubt that all he needed to be was healthy and get regular looks and he too would produce at a 100 catch 1000 yd. level. NO ONE can put up big numbers when you are the 4th or 5th look on every pass play.

If we have the TWO prime examples of what can happen when a player stays healthy gets a decent number of looks from the QB, and has a few years in the system, why the F, do we summarily dismiss a guy who has shown stretches of good play as a rookie, and had a year where he got hurt early, never caught up, and sat behind a group that was playing well. Its not like these example happened on other teams, they were right in front of us. We, as intelligent fans, should know better.

Between Dobsonn, Tyms, and the Players already under contract, I don't see anyone we could possible draft where we draft that would have any more raw physical skills than what we already have. Do you really think Funchess is a better athlete than Dobson OR Tyms, Not by anything I've read.

I always considered Funchess a ridiculous 1st round option, and he's never been a consideration for me. I've also been vocal that I don't want a WR on day 1-2. But I think it would be folly to assume right now that Dobson will succeed with the Pats. I certainly hope he will, but it's definitely not a given.

 

[BelichickFan]

I respect the heck out of a lot of the "no WR early" group but I don't agree. While we need to beef up both lines, we worked around WR last year. Edelman is great. LaFell was good but he is what he is. To make the offense really scary we could use a true outside WR so a 3 WR group could be New Guy and LaFell outside, Edelman and Gronk inside. As it stands we still have longer periods of stagnation than we'd like when teams can squeeze the middle.

They know better than us what they have in Dobson, Tyms, Boyce. If they think one can break through, great. But if not then a top outside WR would make a huge difference.

 

[captain stone]

BTW-2 I have always believed that 2001 was a complete outlier. Probably as big a surprise to BB as it was to the rest of the world. But what people where completely missing was what BB was building for the long haul. The 9-7 2002 team was more a realistic and expected progression of the plan. That team was missing some top pieces and depth. One day BB is going to tell us that 2001 was a shock, but 2003, 4 and all the successful years after were planned for and expected results of a well thought out system of team building

I think I've read somewhere that Bill has already pretty much admitted as much about the 2001 team.
In retrospect, however, I feel that the '01 team had a lot of good players on it; they were just mal-coached
by Carroll, mis-managed by Booby Grier, and infected with some over-paid, under-performing stiffs like
Chris Slade, Todd Rucci et.al.

 

[patfanken]

I always considered Funchess a ridiculous 1st round option, and he's never been a consideration for me. I've also been vocal that I don't want a WR on day 1-2. But I think it would be folly to assume right now that Dobson will succeed with the Pats. I certainly hope he will, but it's definitely not a given.

Of course it's not a given. I never said it was. However I think calling it "folly" to assume he'll eventually be a productive player is a stretch. As on now, there's no reason to believe the chances of Dobson being a productive receiver next season are better than 50-50, and a lot closer to 80-20. That's not folly

 

[RayClay]

I wish it was even THAT positive. In an article in April of 2001 (IIRC), he wrote that the Pats were the LEAST likely NFL team to just MAKE it to the superbowl, not win it, and not just in 2001, but over the next FIVE years.

He was one of the best football analysts of his time, but he really got THAT one wrong.

BTW, it should be noted, that back in the off season before the 2001 season, there weren't many Pats fans who disagreed with any of his conclusions.

BTW-2 I have always believed that 2001 was a complete outlier. Probably as big a surprise to BB as it was to the rest of the world. But what people where completely missing was what BB was building for the long haul. The 9-7 2002 team was more a realistic and expected progression of the plan. That team was missing some top pieces and depth. One day BB is going to tell us that 2001 was a shock, but 2003, 4 and all the successful years after were planned for and expected results of a well thought out system of team building

Probably the same article Ken, my memory of the details could be sketchy.

His analysis was right on and yes nobody, including Belichick (he's said so) expected anything close to what happened.

If any season ever showed how much chemistry matters it's that one. I saw the preseason game in tampa and the first game against Cinci I had to catch on internet radio, but that was a dead team walking, a past his prime QB and a bunch of spare parts.

Suddenly you've got this enthusiastic kid with a chip on his shoulder since college and the spare parts start to think, "why not me?" Why can't i get a shot for a change?

Roman Phifer coming to the end of a fine NFL career with no playoffs at all. Mike Vrabel almost retired and i think Cowher encouraged him to keep trying even though he couldn't crack the strong Pitt line corps. Bryan cox was an A hole, but what a hitter, he set the tone.

David Patten was loading sacks of coffee beans on trucks, are you kidding me? Mike Compton, a great vet that was available like Phifer and Antowain Smith, an underachieving 1st rounder who could deliver with speed and power once he got hit.

You couldn't make the story in Hollywood, they wouldn't believe it. Also, older fans realize troy brown was no star, he was cut twice and had to make his way on special teams and force his way into the lineup, first as an occasional 3rd down receiver.. Even rookie Seymour had to work himself in on a line that was hardly all pro.

The talented veteran core of that team consisted of a few defensive players from the 1997 Super bowl team and that was it.

 

[RayClay]

I think I've read somewhere that Bill has already pretty much admitted as much about the 2001 team.
In retrospect, however, I feel that the '01 team had a lot of good players on it; they were just mal-coached
by Carroll, mis-managed by Booby Grier, and infected with some over-paid, under-performing stiffs like
Chris Slade, Todd Rucci et.al.

Though true, the amount of street free agents who came in and played the season of their lives was incredible. I wouldn't even give belichick credit, it was just some luck and chemistry, a lot to do with Brady IMO.

 

[RayClay]

I predicted that the Patriots would go 3-13 in 2001, though when Mad Bill suspended Terry Glenn ~ who most Fans considered our entire Offense ~ for the entire Season I bumped it to 4-12!! True Story!!

There's your team chemistry addition by subtraction moment right there. I think bellichick's loyalty to players who work hard and improve and his cold indifference to players like Glenn, use them while they can contribute, cut them without explanation when they become a pain, is what players learn.

It's a business. sometimes decisions have to be made,it's nothing personal. If you distract from the team, you and your ilk will be cut like a cancerous tumor no matter your talent (see the big bang clock purge).

I think it really makes players realize you have to be all in, but sometimes it's business, not personal.

 

[patfanken]

You got me thinking about that team, and I have to laugh at those who complain about our lack of receivers even now. Back then I DARE anyone who can name the #3 WR without looking it up. I know I can't and IIRC he only had about 20 catches for the season. So after Glenn was suspended we essentially had Patten, Brown and some guy no can remember. Christ, Dobson and Tyms would have been superstars on that team.

And then there were the TE's. I think we had that kid from Alabama who could block but couldn't catch a cold, and Wiggy. There were only 2 things notable about that group was that I think they combined for about 20 catches in the regular season, and Wiggy got 10 or 11 in one playoff game. Talk about not having any weapons.

Now we go nuts if we don't have WR's, TE's or RB's that go 3 deep. That year we were lucky to when we could go 2 deep at a skill position, and we really couldn't do that at WR. One thing you had to say about that team, was that they had NO room for error or injuries.

It was also a lucky team. IIRC they caught a break when the Jags upset the favored Broncos, among others. Most teams that win the superbowl have to have some "stuff" go their way, good things for them or bad things for the other teams. So we all should understand how the Giants and Ravens can win Superbowls by getting hot and lucky in their playoff runs. We had one of those back in 2001.