Maroney On Kickoff Returns

[captain stone]

I can't quite tell why you're not sure why I can't tell what you're not so sure of.

I will make my point straightforward. You complained about the lack of DBs that are there for more than special teams, saying that Spann should be released and his spot filled with another DB. Well, if NE was as concerned about the issue, why would they have not only retained Spann, but released a DB that was here specifically to be a dimeback instead.

That seems to indicate that not only do the coaches not share your concern, but they feel the exact opposite that you do. Sorry, I've got to side with those guys.

We shall see. I hope that you and the FO are proven to be correct; I'll be keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed, just to be sure.

 

[mcdonut16]

Maroney, for whatever reason does not look explosive on kickoff returns. He never seems to bust it at full speed, and seems tentative or overly patient.

If he was more productive in that spot I would say give him as many touches as possible, but I don't think the risk is worth the reward.

He seems to have a different mentality on Kick offs, from when he is turning the corner on sweeps.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

We shall see. I hope that you and the FO are proven to be correct; I'll be keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed, just to be sure.

For both you and Os - injury report: Hobbs (questionable), Wilson (questionable), Gay (IR), Hawkins (questionable), Andrews (questionable) - for the Bengals game Hobbs, Wilson, and Andrews were out, Gay on IR, Spann was brought up for Special Teams to replace either Gay or Andrews, Chidi was signed for the other slot and Poteat was brought back to back up Scott replacing Hobbs. Andrews and Wilson missed Miami, Gay is still gone, and Hobbs was used in situational work. BB felt Hobbs was well enough that he would be starting or up for nickelback by Buffalo, so Poteat is now a Jest and we have Chidi and Antwain setting the KO coverage edge and playing gunner. Wheels within wheels guys...now back to the Maroney KR saga.

As Mosi said, Maroney looks tentative, a big part of that is field vision and it's the same thing affecting him in the running game. I see it as a two-fold issue, BB is putting the ball in the hands of the teams best open field runner (nobody else is close at this time), secondly, he is giving his rookie RB additional touches in the fastest portion of the game, and providing him more opportunities to "see" the field and learn to process his looks rapidly. It's all good.

 

[Seneschal2]

Good question. I can only see as of right now they are maybe still teaching him things and hoping he will get better beofre he might have trouble on the field. Also i know he was hurt a week or two ago.

But a very good question that needs to be addressed.

Andrews collegiate experience as a returner far exceeds that of Maroney. Assign him that role and keep Maroney in the backfield where he's better suited and far more valuable.

BTW, I do like Faulk on punts, where quick feet (more than speed) are necessary.

 

[Mike the Brit]

For both you and Os - injury report: Hobbs (questionable), Wilson (questionable), Gay (IR), Hawkins (questionable), Andrews (questionable) - for the Bengals game Hobbs, Wilson, and Andrews were out, Gay on IR, Spann was brought up for Special Teams to replace either Gay or Andrews, Chidi was signed for the other slot and Poteat was brought back to back up Scott replacing Hobbs. Andrews and Wilson missed Miami, Gay is still gone, and Hobbs was used in situational work. BB felt Hobbs was well enough that he would be starting or up for nickelback by Buffalo, so Poteat is now a Jest and we have Chidi and Antwain setting the KO coverage edge and playing gunner. Wheels within wheels guys...now back to the Maroney KR saga.

As Mosi said, Maroney looks tentative, a big part of that is field vision and it's the same thing affecting him in the running game. I see it as a two-fold issue, BB is putting the ball in the hands of the teams best open field runner (nobody else is close at this time), secondly, he is giving his rookie RB additional touches in the fastest portion of the game, and providing him more opportunities to "see" the field and learn to process his looks rapidly. It's all good.

This is an excellent post and I agree with it.

The bottom line is exactly as you say: Maroney is the team's best open field runner. He isn't, you might say, a "kick return" type of runner -- he doesn't have that sort of shiftiness or sheer speed from twenty yards on (when Bethel was playing at his best and broke one, it seemed as though he was accelerating all the way). But we don't have such a runner and there are good reasons to want him on the field.

 

[DCPatsFan]

Maroney, for whatever reason does not look explosive on kickoff returns. He never seems to bust it at full speed, and seems tentative or overly patient.

If he was more productive in that spot I would say give him as many touches as possible, but I don't think the risk is worth the reward.

He seems to have a different mentality on Kick offs, from when he is turning the corner on sweeps.

I agree with you completely - he doesn't want to take the big hit that ends his career - can you blame him? However, I guess they don't really have anybody else, like Bethel in 2003 - he was awsome that year, always a threat.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I agree with you completely - he doesn't want to take the big hit that ends his career - can you blame him?

wow do i disagree--Maroney has not shown me anything to make me think that he avoids hits. on the contrary, he SLAMS into tacklers on inside running routes.

the guy has played 5 pro games--he will get better. football players play--leave him back there I say...

 

[PatsFanInVa]

wow do i disagree--Maroney has not shown me anything to make me think that he avoids hits. on the contrary, he SLAMS into tacklers on inside running routes.

the guy has played 5 pro games--he will get better. football players play--leave him back there I say...

BINGO, Fungi. That's something I've heard from the Pats brass on an occasion or two, and something we disregard in the world of "boutique" playcalling/position analysis. In the BB era, the Pats have always taken that tack -- we'll get maximum value out of our guys no matter what position it says in the program (the obvious examples are Vrabel and Troy... this is just another example.)

I think the philosophy is to get maximum value players, and that's the FO's responsibility, and to maximize that value on the field - that's the coaching staff's responsibility. There's no better proven model in the Free Agency/Cap era.

Side note: Of course, we are in a new phase of that era -- it's possible that the Pats' model's success ends here, with high cap inflation kicking in for the foreseeable future. I don't think so, but only because these guys are smart as hell; but that's a trust thing, rather than "I understand what they're doing and it will prevail in the long run."

Now, if they make him play on a beach in Hawaii, I'll get pissed.

PFnV

 

[DCPatsFan]

wow do i disagree--Maroney has not shown me anything to make me think that he avoids hits. on the contrary, he SLAMS into tacklers on inside running routes.

the guy has played 5 pro games--he will get better. football players play--leave him back there I say...

I was referring to how tentative he is on kickoff returns, not his running game, which you're right, he does slam right into tacklers as a RB. However, in the kicking game, return men historically have short careers, because the hits they absorb are more bone-crushing types of hits.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I was referring to how tentative he is on kickoff returns, not his running game, which you're right, he does slam right into tacklers as a RB. However, in the kicking game, return men historically have short careers, because the hits they absorb are more bone-crushing types of hits.

I think the reason most KRs burn out early, they age and lose some of that afterburner speed they need to break away. I also find it hard to compare the hits a KR takes to those RBs face consistently and say the KR is getting his clock cleaned more often. The bottom line here, what other Pats' player is capable of playing KR and gaining the yardage needed to be competitive in the field position scramble?

 

[onegameatatime]

I think I disagree with almost all of you. I love seeing Maroney returning kickoffs (I hate seeing Pass, who is too slow).

Maroney will break one this year ... I'm sure of it if he stays in the role. In the meantime, if he can add yards on the return, why are those yards less valuable than from the line of scrimmage?

 

[onegameatatime]

I feel vindicated!!

Serious question: when was the last time a returner on (a) any team, or (b) the Pats, got hurt bad returning a kickoff?

 

[mcbee]

I think the reason most KRs burn out early, they age and lose some of that afterburner speed they need to break away. I also find it hard to compare the hits a KR takes to those RBs face consistently and say the KR is getting his clock cleaned more often. The bottom line here, what other Pats' player is capable of playing KR and gaining the yardage needed to be competitive in the field position scramble?

It may be that the Pats want to get their money's worth our of him. He isn't much running the ball, unless he gets a good hole (which is rare with this line), so they figure kickoffs it is.

They'll probably have him return punts too. That's a brutal job.

 

[DCPatsFan]

I feel vindicated!!

Serious question: when was the last time a returner on (a) any team, or (b) the Pats, got hurt bad returning a kickoff?

Cheers

As a kid, I saw a player named Leon Bright for the Giants receive a career-ending hit as a kick returner (I think it was Michael Downs for Dallas that hit him). That's the one I remember