Just the Facts, Ma'Am

[upstater1]

7. Fact. Last year when the Dolphins acquired iso-tape from a local TV station, they picked apart the Patriots' signals, and then employed the use of those stolen signals in a game. Afterward, they bragged and gloated to the press about it. When the NFL was apprised, a NFL spokesman said that what they did was perfectly legal. He literally said that stealing signals off a videotape and using them in a game in order to upset the competitive advantage of the game is OK.

If I'm allowed to make some observations based on this fact, I can conclude that the NFL is fine with cheating and upsetting the competitive balance of games, even if the method of cheating is derived from an unauthorized unofficial non-NFL videotape. But the NFL is not fine with anyone actually making a videotape. Here, we have a bureaucratic question, a technicality that the Patriots violated.

I'm even prepared to say that the Patriots cheated, because I can't figure out why they were doing it otherwise, other than to employ stolen signals in a game. But what astonishes me is that the NFL condones such cheating, just as they condoned it last year. The NFL doesn't really care about competitive balance. If it did, it would give the same sort of deference to teams with defensive excellence that it does to teams with offensive excellence by providing defenses with radio headsets. The NFL is, and always will be, a cabal of monopolistic owners who turn the knives on one another every Sunday, a host of competing self-interests that will vie for any competitive advantage, and also a gang of rule-breakers who attempt to knock the Don off his perch as soon as they see a moment of weakness. The fact that the media behaves as hypocritical hyenas with short memories does not mean that every NFL fan must be stupid, and forget what's really going on.

so, I offered my conclusion. if I'm allowed to speculate a bit, I think Belichick pushed this to a head precisely because of the NFL's unwise stance when they defended the Miami cheating from last year. If only the NFL came out and declared Miami's tactics illegal, I'd be much mor prepared to say that the Patriots cheat as badly as the Dolphins, and what's more, what they do is illegal. So, I'd say, NFL do your worst. I hope Gooddell can explain to Belichick why it's ok for the Dolphins to do that.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Cannon Arm is just a troll pretending to be one of us. His name is a reference to the Peyton Manning commercial that he wears a moustache and describes himself and says "that Manning guy is pretty good,etc.."

I came to the same conclusion when he referred to NE as an old team.

 

[Fixit]

Last time I checked, neither of the HCs in the Super Bowl last year or the year before were named Bill Belichick. Belichick is replaceable. There are a lot of great assistants and coordinators who could succeed here. We have many great pieces to building a championship team.

So if a coach who has already coached us to 3 Superbowl wins doesn't get us to the Superbowl every year (and he was only one play away from reaching it last year) he's replaceable?!? Do I have that right?

 

[Cannon Arm]

I'm even prepared to say that the Patriots cheated, because I can't figure out why they were doing it otherwise, other than to employ stolen signals in a game. But what astonishes me is that the NFL condones such cheating, just as they condoned it last year. The NFL doesn't really care about competitive balance. If it did, it would give the same sort of deference to teams with defensive excellence that it does to teams with offensive excellence by providing defenses with radio headsets.

The NFL can only do so much to stop cheating and they only try to stop things they have the power to stop. If the NFL sets up rules it can't enforce, it diminishes its overall authority. They become a source of empty threats.

 

[Cannon Arm]

So if a coach who has already coached us to 3 Superbowl wins doesn't get us to the Superbowl every year (and he was only one play away from reaching it last year) he's replaceable?!? Do I have that right?

No one is irreplaceable. No one.

 

[Cannon Arm]

I came to the same conclusion when he referred to NE as an old team.

The Pats are objectively an old team. The average age is 27.6. That puts them in the top tier.

 

[Fixit]

No one is irreplaceable. No one.

A) I disagree.
B) Your criteria for him being replaceable is a joke: "Well, he wasn't in the Superbowl last year..."

 

[upstater1]

The NFL can only do so much to stop cheating and they only try to stop things they have the power to stop. If the NFL sets up rules it can't enforce, it diminishes its overall authority. They become a source of empty threats.

You're not getting it. The NFL came out and expressly said, it's OK to take signals from a tape and employ them in a game. They could have easily said, we have no proof that such a thing occurred. That means they condone cheating.

Now, the Patriots violated a rule. Fine, they should be punished, maybe as much as TO for pulling out a Sharpie. But you can't say they cheated when the NFL allows cheating by expressly saying that this form of so-called cheating is LEGAL.

 

[vyrago]

You're not getting it. The NFL came out and expressly said, it's OK to take signals from a tape and employ them in a game. They could have easily said, we have no proof that such a thing occurred. That means they condone cheating.

Now, the Patriots violated a rule. Fine, they should be punished, maybe as much as TO for pulling out a Sharpie. But you can't say they cheated when the NFL allows cheating by expressly saying that this form of so-called cheating is LEGAL.

Then what is that moron on the second espn clip talking about?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3015478

He's so worked up I expect him to end his tirade with "string 'em up!"

Aren't still pictures taken during a game or am I just imagining having seen QBs looking at contact sheets on the sidelines during a game?

 

[Fixit]

Aren't still pictures taken during a game or am I just imagining having seen QBs looking at contact sheets on the sidelines during a game?

No, you're right. I think the next thing Belichick should do is get some high-speed cameras, take a bunch of shots of the opposition's signals, and then make f****** flipbooks for his team.

 

[old 55]

I came to the same conclusion when he referred to NE as an old team.

Notice that he's added several posts to this thread and not denied being a troll.

 

[RayClay]

7. Fact. Last year when the Dolphins acquired iso-tape from a local TV station, they picked apart the Patriots' signals, and then employed the use of those stolen signals in a game. Afterward, they bragged and gloated to the press about it. When the NFL was apprised, a NFL spokesman said that what they did was perfectly legal. He literally said that stealing signals off a videotape and using them in a game in order to upset the competitive advantage of the game is OK.

If I'm allowed to make some observations based on this fact, I can conclude that the NFL is fine with cheating and upsetting the competitive balance of games, even if the method of cheating is derived from an unauthorized unofficial non-NFL videotape. But the NFL is not fine with anyone actually making a videotape. Here, we have a bureaucratic question, a technicality that the Patriots violated.

I'm even prepared to say that the Patriots cheated, because I can't figure out why they were doing it otherwise, other than to employ stolen signals in a game. But what astonishes me is that the NFL condones such cheating, just as they condoned it last year. The NFL doesn't really care about competitive balance. If it did, it would give the same sort of deference to teams with defensive excellence that it does to teams with offensive excellence by providing defenses with radio headsets. The NFL is, and always will be, a cabal of monopolistic owners who turn the knives on one another every Sunday, a host of competing self-interests that will vie for any competitive advantage, and also a gang of rule-breakers who attempt to knock the Don off his perch as soon as they see a moment of weakness. The fact that the media behaves as hypocritical hyenas with short memories does not mean that every NFL fan must be stupid, and forget what's really going on.

so, I offered my conclusion. if I'm allowed to speculate a bit, I think Belichick pushed this to a head precisely because of the NFL's unwise stance when they defended the Miami cheating from last year. If only the NFL came out and declared Miami's tactics illegal, I'd be much mor prepared to say that the Patriots cheat as badly as the Dolphins, and what's more, what they do is illegal. So, I'd say, NFL do your worst. I hope Gooddell can explain to Belichick why it's ok for the Dolphins to do that.

The Dolphins didn't break any rules, it's simple as that.

What the dolphins did was legal, what the Patriots did was illegal.

When they change the speed limit from 55 to 65, you can legally do what you couldn't the year before, what is it that's unclear there?

 

[naclone]

Here are the questions we need answers to before any judgement can be passed:

1. why were the patriots (allegedly) videotaping the sidelines?
2. why did the patriots (allegedly) continue to videotape the sidelines after being told by the league not to?

Those are really the only facts that matter to me. And we don't have those answers yet.

Okay, if I'm not mistaken, we now have at least partial answers to these to questions.

1. Why were they videotaping the sidelines? According to Schefter's sources, the Patriots have a "DNA" book on every player and coach in the league and these tapes are part of building that book. That is why NE recorded Minnesota and other teams they don't play often -- because you never know when that personnel winds up on a team that they DO play frequently. And in light of that information, it stands to reason that this has a lot more to do with how these INDIVIDUALS react to different things on the field than it does with what THE TEAM is doing (i.e. stealing signals). Bottom line, they were not recording the sidelines for any real-time impact.

2. Why did BB keep doing it? It sounds like (again according to schefter's sources) he was under the assumption (right or wrong) that recording was allowable so long as no club staff had access to the camera or tapes DURING THE GAME (see above). This also explains why they were doing it so "brazenly" out in the open. They didn't think it was illegal under the circumstances. If they did, they would have done it more covertly.

So, given that information, I'm sorry but I'd say there was a MASSIVE overreaction here. The Pats broke the rules. They will be punished for it. But you've got a pretty tough argument to make if you're still holding onto the belief New England cheated.

 

[Hoodie]

No one is irreplaceable. No one.

Actually, I think you are.

 

[Fixit]

Okay, if I'm not mistaken, we now have at least partial answers to these to questions.

1. Why were they videotaping the sidelines? According to Schefter's sources, the Patriots have a "DNA" book on every player and coach in the league and these tapes are part of building that book. That is why NE recorded Minnesota and other teams they don't play often -- because you never know when that personnel winds up on a team that they DO play frequently. And in light of that information, it stands to reason that this has a lot more to do with how these INDIVIDUALS react to different things on the field than it does with what THE TEAM is doing (i.e. stealing signals). Bottom line, they were not recording the sidelines for any real-time impact.

2. Why did BB keep doing it? It sounds like (again according to schefter's sources) he was under the assumption (right or wrong) that recording was allowable so long as no club staff had access to the camera or tapes DURING THE GAME (see above). This also explains why they were doing it so "brazenly" out in the open. They didn't think it was illegal under the circumstances. If they did, they would have done it more covertly.

So, given that information, I'm sorry but I'd say there was a MASSIVE overreaction here. The Pats broke the rules. They will be punished for it. But you've got a pretty tough argument to make if you're still holding onto the belief New England cheated.

The fact that they were so obvious in doing it does make one tend to think that it really was a misinterpretation of the rules.

On the other hand, BB is apparently the Devil.

 

[upstater1]

The Dolphins didn't break any rules, it's simple as that.

What the dolphins did was legal, what the Patriots did was illegal.

When they change the speed limit from 55 to 65, you can legally do what you couldn't the year before, what is it that's unclear there?

Except no rule was changed. That rule wasn't instituted this year.

 

[upstater1]

No, you're right. I think the next thing Belichick should do is get some high-speed cameras, take a bunch of shots of the opposition's signals, and then make f****** flipbooks for his team.

LOL. The NFL knows all this. This is why they can't make laws outlawing cheating. They would have to confiscate every fan's cell phone at the gate to prevent this.

Does anyone doubt that a $2,000 cell phone could easily record signals from a distance?

Please.