It Is Time To Discuss Special Teamers

[mgteich]

We are set in our 3 specialists.

We have our top gunner (Slater)
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Belichick always seems to keep lots of special teamers. Other than choosing a backup OL and DT, I have our roster as pretty set. I have Zusevics as the #8 OL, but it could certainly be a center. Grissom seems most likely as #4 DT (if Armstead isn't back).
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The focus for me now moves to special teams and backups for the backups for the backups.
We need to keep out top special teamers more than we need more backup. The positions below are therefore special teams first and position second.

1) RB/KR/FB Devlin, Washington or Hooman (a dedicated KR or a fullback)

2) 5th DB Dowling or Cole (Cole is our #2 gunner)

3) 4th TE Fells or Hooman (this is for Ballard's opening day backup). Some don't think that we need this roster spot.
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4) PICK TWO (we could keep more)

Cole, T Wilson, Ebner, Beauharnais, Koutouvides, Rivera, Tarpinian, Edds
I've already included Slater and Bolden as locks.

Yes, it was Wilson who got the most ST reps in yesterday's game.

I like Rivera a lot. I also like Cole. My gut says that we keep T Wilson and Cole, and have the rest on speed dial, except for Beauharnais who would go to the Practice Squad.


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48 MAN ROSTER
QB (2) Brady, Mallett
RB (4) Ridley, Vereen, Blount, Bolden
WR (6) Amendola, Thompkins, Dobson, Boyce, Edelman, Slater
TE (3) Ballard, Gronkowski, Sudfeld
C (1) Wendell
G (3) Mankins, Connolly, Cannon
T (4) Vollmer, Solder, Svitek, Zusevics
DE (5) Jones, Ninkovich, Francis, Benard, Buchanan
DT (3) Wilfork, Kelly, Forston, TBD
ILB(2) Spikes, Fletcher
OLB(3) Mayo, Hightower, Collins
CB (4) Talib, Dennard, Arrington, Ryan
SS (1) Wilson
FS (3) McCourty, Gregory, Harmon
ST (3) Gostkowski, Aiken, Mesko

Total players: 47
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2013

 

[AzPatsFan]

Coles is losing out because Ebner is the second best ST next to Slater, and Logan Ryan a is an accomplished gunner and Tavon can contribute on ST, as can many other potential regular players. I would predict only 5 LBs will be kept, as you can add instant depth from Adrian Wilson and/or Ninko, if needed. The ST-only LBs are all gone to speed dial. Beauharnais may go to PS.

 

[ATippett56]

Snap counts: Logan Ryan receives most playing time in Patriots' win over Bucs | masslive.com

 

[dannydyn]

The performance of our special teams last night was absolutely atrocious. Embarrassing.

 

[jmt57]

In the scenario presented above position #50 is between Dowling and Cole. If #50 goes to Dowling then position #52 goes to the best ST defensive back, which would be Cole. If #50 goes to Cole then does the 10th


I am thinking that the Patriots go with Cole over Dowling for position #50, as a ST/#9 DB. That would then leave Dowling to compete with Ebner and T Wilson (or possibly even Davis) for position #52, as a ST/#10 DB.


In the scenario presented above we are starting out with eight defensive backs (four corners, four safeties). While at least one if not both of those positions are going to be based primarily on special teams play, I would think that one will be a corner and one will be a safety.

I am guessing that Cole makes the roster one way or another because of his special teams play. Since he has a CB then that would eliminate Dowling, as Cole would be the 5th CB.

The 10th defensive back spot would be a safety. Duron Harmon (15 ST snaps Friday) gets a lot of ST play but what about the others? I wouldn't expect Adrian Wilson to get any ST play. Devin McCourty had 256 ST snaps in 2012 (4th most on the club); does that go down this year? Steve Gregory had only 8 ST snaps in 2012; now that he is no longer a starter does that increase - or put his roster spot in jeopardy? If Nate Ebner is cut, then who replaces his 297 ST snaps in 2012 (2nd highest on the team), taking into consideration that McCourty may get fewer snaps and Patrick Chung (146 ST snaps in 2012) is also gone?

Does all that make for more of a case that Tavon Wilson (237 ST snaps in 2012) will make the roster?

Or will the coaching staff have seen enough of T Wilson and give Kanorris Davis (who I thought looked pretty good on special teams Friday) an opportunity to surprise and make the roster over T Wislon and Ebner?


For the moment I give one of those two roster spots to Cole, with the other a tossup.


At LB I am inclined to think that Beauharnais claims Koutouvides roster spot and Niko heads up the shadow roster, taking the top spot on BB's speed dial. That leaves the final ST/LB roster spot as a tossup between Rivera, Tarpinian and Edds. Since Beauharnais is primarily a special teamer they may opt to go with Edds, who is better at the position (specifically in coverage).



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For what it's worth, here is a listing of special team snaps for the 2012 season among defensive backs, and then for linebackers.

2012 New England Patriots ST snaps

Defensive Backs
297 - Nate Ebner
256 - Devin McCourty
237 - Tavon Wilson
214 - Kyle Arrington
204 - Marquice Cole
146 - Patrick Chung
52 -- Derrick Martin
40 -- Sterling Moore
34 -- Malcolm Williams
17 -- Aqib Talib
12 -- Ras-I Dowling
8 --- Steve Gregory
0 --- Alfonzo Dennard

Linebackers
317 - Niko Koutouvides
198 - Tracy White
176 - Mike Rivera
85 -- Jerod Mayo
74 -- Bobby Carpenter
47 -- Jeff Tarpinian
39 -- Dont'a Hightower
6 --- Brandon Spikes




In addition, here are the Special Teams snap counts from Friday's game vs Bucs

Cornerbacks
12 - Marquice Cole
9 -- Logan Ryan
6 -- Brandon Jones
5 -- Kyle Arrington
4 -- Justin Green
3 -- LeQuan Lewis
3 -- Aqib Talib

Safeties
16 - Tavon Wilson
15 - Duron Harmon
11 - Kanorris Davis
3 -- Adrian Wilson

Linebackers
13 - Niko Koutouvides
13 - Mike Rivera
12 - Jeff Tarpinian

 

[mgteich]

I'm confused. If we use 2 of the 5 positions on the offense, then there are 3 positions left for special teams.

You use ONE for Cole.

You use TWO for T Wilson or Ebner.

You use THREE for Beauharnais.

You FIND and FOURTH to Rivera, Tarpinian or Edds.

You keep the losers on speed-dial.

I think that you may be right in needing the additional LB/STer but we need to cut a roster spot somewhere.

In the scenario presented above position #50 is between Dowling and Cole. If #50 goes to Dowling then position #52 goes to the best ST defensive back, which would be Cole. If #50 goes to Cole then does the 10th


I am thinking that the Patriots go with Cole over Dowling for position #50, as a ST/#9 DB. That would then leave Dowling to compete with Ebner and T Wilson (or possibly even Davis) for position #52, as a ST/#10 DB.


In the scenario presented above we are starting out with ten defensive backs (four corners, four safeties). While at least one if not both of those positions are going to be based primarily on special teams play, I would think that one will be a corner and one will be a safety.

I am guessing that Cole makes the roster one way or another because of his special teams play. Since he has a CB then that would eliminate Dowling, as Cole would be the 5th CB.

The 10th defensive back spot would be a safety. Duron Harmon (15 ST snaps Friday) gets a lot of ST play but what about the others? I wouldn't expect Adrian Wilson to get any ST play. Devin McCourty had 256 ST snaps in 2012 (4th most on the club); does that go down this year? Steve Gregory had only 8 ST snaps in 2012; now that he is no longer a starter does that increase - or put his roster spot in jeopardy? If Nate Ebner is cut, then who replaces his 297 ST snaps in 2012 (2nd highest on the team), taking into consideration that McCourty may get fewer snaps and Patrick Chung (146 ST snaps in 2012) is also gone?

Does all that make for more of a case that Tavon Wilson (237 ST snaps in 2012) will make the roster?

Or will the coaching staff have seen enough of T Wilson and give Kanorris Davis (who I thought looked pretty good on special teams Friday) an opportunity to surprise and make the roster over T Wislon and Ebner?


For the moment I give one of those two roster spots to Cole, with the other a tossup.


At LB I am inclined to think that Beauharnais claims Koutouvides roster spot and Niko heads up the shadow roster, taking the top spot on BB's speed dial. That leaves the final ST/LB roster spot as a tossup between Rivera, Tarpinian and Edds. Since Beauharnais is primarily a special teamer they may opt to go with Edds, who is better at the position (specifically in coverage).



======


For what it's worth, here is a listing of special team snaps for the 2012 season among defensive backs, and then for linebackers.

2012 New England Patriots ST snaps

Defensive Backs
297 - Nate Ebner
256 - Devin McCourty
237 - Tavon Wilson
214 - Kyle Arrington
204 - Marquice Cole
146 - Patrick Chung
52 -- Derrick Martin
40 -- Sterling Moore
34 -- Malcolm Williams
17 -- Aqib Talib
12 -- Ras-I Dowling
8 --- Steve Gregory
0 --- Alfonzo Dennard

Linebackers
317 - Niko Koutouvides
198 - Tracy White
176 - Mike Rivera
85 -- Jerod Mayo
74 -- Bobby Carpenter
47 -- Jeff Tarpinian
39 -- Dont'a Hightower
6 --- Brandon Spikes




In addition, here are the Special Teams snap counts from Friday's game vs Bucs

Cornerbacks
12 - Marquice Cole
9 -- Logan Ryan
6 -- Brandon Jones
5 -- Kyle Arrington
4 -- Justin Green
3 -- LeQuan Lewis
3 -- Aqib Talib

Safeties
16 - Tavon Wilson
15 - Duron Harmon
11 - Kanorris Davis
3 -- Adrian Wilson

Linebackers
13 - Niko Koutouvides
13 - Mike Rivera
12 - Jeff Tarpinian

 

[mgteich]

Backup linebackers accounted for an average 50 Special Teams reps per game.

For what it's worth, here is a listing of special team snaps for the 2012 season among defensive backs, and then for linebackers. Whose replacing all those reps? I seems that we need two STers plus Fletcher plus Collins.

2012 New England Patriots ST snaps

Linebackers
317 - Niko Koutouvides
198 - Tracy White
176 - Mike Rivera
85 -- Jerod Mayo
74 -- Bobby Carpenter
47 -- Jeff Tarpinian
39 -- Dont'a Hightower
6 --- Brandon Spikes


In addition, here are the Special Teams snap counts from Friday's game vs Bucs

Linebackers
13 - Niko Koutouvides
13 - Mike Rivera
12 - Jeff Tarpinian

 

[mgteich]

LINEBACKER/ST
It is really, really difficult to play the ST/LB position while on speed dial. It really is. These backup linebackers logged 50 reps per game last year on Special Teams. That's 4 players.
Last year we had Koutouvidis, White, Rivera, and Tarpinian/Carpenter. I suppose Fletcher is one. Collins might be another. You are two players short.

SECONDARY/ST
I can understand that you believe that Ryan will replace Cole's value on special teams. I personally don't think so, but it is a reasonable position. Also, it reasonable to keep STer T. Wilson and Ebner since they were among the most used special teamers that we had last year. Personally, I would keep Cole and Wilson, but either choice can work. This issue is at linebacker.

Coles is losing out because Ebner is the second best ST next to Slater, and Logan Ryan a is an accomplished gunner and Tavon can contribute on ST, as can many other potential regular players. I would predict only 5 LBs will be kept, as you can add instant depth from Adrian Wilson and/or Ninko, if needed. The ST-only LBs are all gone to speed dial. Beauharnais may go to PS.