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Is Brandon Spikes as good as McLain


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I don't get all the Ted Johnson love. If we had him now we'd be talking about how he's too slow in the modern NFL to make an impact and we need more speed at ILB b/c it's a pass happy league etc etc.

Are you seriously *****ing about us not getting Brinkley? The guy is as stiff as a "wedding ****" to quote Patriot Reign hahahha. He was consistently out of position, looked slow, and hurt the Vikings on defense after Henderson went down and he took over full time. He over-pursued and bit on fakes too easily.

I think Adalius actually would've made a great SILB that could've probably played all 3 downs. Strength to stack and shed at 6'2 270, pretty good speed, and pretty good in coverage for 3rd downs.
Oh no, you didn't! :bricks: We agree again (on Brinkley)! ;)

I'm not opposed to a TJ who attacks the guards when they block at the next level, I just never thought Brinkley could be that since he sat on his heels trying to figure things out so often. I really do wish NE would identify some college DL who is used to hand-fighting OL and start the conversion process to put him alongside either Mayo or Guyton at ILB. I'm still a fan of Eric Norwood despite his crappy Senior Bowl and final bowl game, but I think he needs to regain weight and get back to 260 and just be accepted as a downhill player against the run and a primary blitzer/pass rusher on passing downs.

I don't have the patience to go back through this thread and look to see if this link has been posted - here's a Miami fan from universal draft analyzing the argument posed in this thread for those with the patience to read an in-depth review: Lowering the Boom: LB Brandon Spikes vs. LB Rolando McClain, SEC Championship
 
No? you said or implied that "hitting hard" is stupid as it just wears a player out as a way of dismissing my question out of hand. I replied that that isn't the only thing about him that makes him a good player. It's stupid of you to think that that was his only positive attribute.

Anyway, most scouting services say he's pretty darn good. He did play much of the year injured.

If you're saying, and others are saying, that there is no person stout enough, good enough, etc. to man NE's SILB position in the whole country (other than McClain and possibly Dansby), then I think we need a new system. A system with a little more personnel flexibility.

no.......I said hitting hard doesn't mean a whole lot. especially when you don't wrap it up well with a tackle......hitting hard in college rarely translates to the NFL.

It is even more stupid of you to make meaningless comments brought on by baseless presumptions.

as for whatever other jibberish you are putting up there....once again, spikes is not as good as mcclain....mcclain is already better while being a full 2 years younger

feel free to dwell on the hitting comment........but you know mcclain is better
 
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Oh no, you didn't! :bricks: We agree again (on Brinkley)! ;)

I'm not opposed to a TJ who attacks the guards when they block at the next level, I just never thought Brinkley could be that since he sat on his heels trying to figure things out so often. I really do wish NE would identify some college DL who is used to hand-fighting OL and start the conversion process to put him alongside either Mayo or Guyton at ILB. I'm still a fan of Eric Norwood despite his crappy Senior Bowl and final bowl game, but I think he needs to regain weight and get back to 260 and just be accepted as a downhill player against the run and a primary blitzer/pass rusher on passing downs.

I don't have the patience to go back through this thread and look to see if this link has been posted - here's a Miami fan from universal draft analyzing the argument posed in this thread for those with the patience to read an in-depth review: Lowering the Boom: LB Brandon Spikes vs. LB Rolando McClain, SEC Championship

Hahaha the world must be coming to an end. I would've liked to see us try Adalius at SILB. I know he would've *****ed and moaned but I think he would've been very solid for us inside and could've been productive for us on some ILB blitzes to collapse the pocket.
 
I don't get all the Ted Johnson love. If we had him now we'd be talking about how he's too slow in the modern NFL to make an impact and we need more speed at ILB b/c it's a pass happy league etc etc.

Ted Johnson may have been a limited player but he was very effective in the role that he played - 2 down run stuffer. He just did not miss a lot of tackles. If a runner gets in his area, you're not going to see a lot of big runs broken off simply because TJ was a big strong, fundamentally sound tackler. So I'd rather not you piss on one of the big contributors to the Pats previous superbowl runs if it's all well and good. If you want a guy who could cover the pass well, that's why you'd sub in Phifer.

Now if you're talking about using a 1st round pick on a linebacker, then you're looking for the complete package - tackling, instincts, passrushing, coverage, etc. There are very few linebackers who can in fact execute all those facets of the game at a high level. Rolando Mcclain 'appears' to be one such player.

Does Spikes look to be in that same league? After a poor 2009 season, it appears that he is not, no. But is he worth a second round pick and would he be able to contribute positively to our defense? Crystal ball says, Maybe.

Scouting report:

Brandon Spikes Scouting Report - 2010 NFL Draft Prospect

Positives:

1. Good size. 6'3 255 lbs. He is physically built to withstand the pounding that BB's inside backers must take in the 3-4.

2. Violent tackler. Now the emphasis is not just on big, highlight hits, but rather the fact that a punishing downhill player will take his toll on the ballcarrier. Hit a guy hard enough over the course of a game and he might develop some hesitation when he sees the same guy coming over to punish him again and again. It is a fact that violent players excel at violent games because the physical part of the game can't be ignored and it's a war of attrition at times.

3. Surprisingly good coverage ability. Makes plays in space. Doesn't look lost out there when defending against the pass.

Negatives:

1. Questionable technique: Does not wrap up as well as he should. This can lead to big plays on missed tackles. Is this a problem? Yes, it's a red flag. Is it correctable with coaching? Possibly.

Some guys never learn to wrap up properly, but it is something that can be improved over time. When I first played football, it wasn't until my second to third year that I really learned to wrap up well. But after I did, I became one of the best tacklers on the team. This is a skill that I believe can be improved with repetition and dedication.

2. Foot speed: Scouting report says he runs about a 4.7. This is not ideal footspeed if you want a rangy sideline to sideline ILB, but isn't that what we have Mayo for? He just needs to be fast enough to stay with tight ends. Not all tight ends have freakish 4.5 speed like Watson, so as long as Spikes can keep up, he could be good enough to be a 3 down player.

3. Shedding blocks: Again this is questionable. And maybe an even bigger red flag than the first two. In BB's 3-4 defense linebackers must be able to stack and shed the blocks of opposing guards. Spikes is a strong player so maybe he just needs to refine his technique. Or maybe this is a skill that can't be improved? I don't know, I never had to face 300 lb guys at the high school level. I probably would have been killed if that had happened. LOL. Explains why I didn't try to play college ball though, that and my college didn't have a football team anyways.

Overall:
Do I think Spikes is equal to Mcclain? No, he has a lot more questionmarks and red flags. I'm not sure how good of a fit he can be for this team unless he can improve on his red flags and weaknesses. But at the very least, I think he could make an impact with his physical play and his coverage abilities are a nice bonus... that is if his footspeed doesn't limit him to the point where he can't stay with most tight ends.

Spikes looks like a mid 2nd to early 3rd round player right now. He might improve his stock at the combine. If anyone gets to see his drills, let me know if he appears to have improved with his block shedding and wrap up techniques. Spikes is a flawed player sure, but it's easy to get wrapped up in the negatives and forget about a player's strengths and what they can bring to the table. At the very least he fits BB's physical mold for the ILB position and his weaknesses might be correctable with proper coaching. He's not the 'ideal' player for us, but he is a player to keep an eye on. Remember that in 2008, he looked like a surefire 1st rounder and even a top 10 player at times.
 
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I really do wish NE would identify some college DL who is used to hand-fighting OL and start the conversion process to put him alongside either Mayo or Guyton at ILB.

I was hoping that Dan Klecko would've been that conversion when he was drafted in '03.
Otherwise, he was a terrible match as a DLman for this system.
 
I was hoping that Dan Klecko would've been that conversion when he was drafted in '03.
Otherwise, he was a terrible match as a DLman for this system.

They DID try to convert Klecko to ILB. He just lacked the agility and footspeed to play there. His arms were also too short and that allowed OL to get in his pads and stuff him before he could make contact with the ballcarrier.
 
They DID try to convert Klecko to ILB. He just lacked the agility and footspeed to play there. His arms were also too short and that allowed OL to get in his pads and stuff him before he could make contact with the ballcarrier.
Yes, you could see his quickness on the DL giving him a chance to control the OL, but at ILB that quickness was neutralized and he was unable to get his hands inside before they got too him. Pity.
 
Ted Johnson may have been a limited player but he was very effective in the role that he played - 2 down run stuffer. He just did not miss a lot of tackles. If a runner gets in his area, you're not going to see a lot of big runs broken off simply because TJ was a big strong, fundamentally sound tackler. So I'd rather not you piss on one of the big contributors to the Pats previous superbowl runs if it's all well and good. If you want a guy who could cover the pass well, that's why you'd sub in Phifer.

Now if you're talking about using a 1st round pick on a linebacker, then you're looking for the complete package - tackling, instincts, passrushing, coverage, etc. There are very few linebackers who can in fact execute all those facets of the game at a high level. Rolando Mcclain 'appears' to be one such player.

Does Spikes look to be in that same league? After a poor 2009 season, it appears that he is not, no. But is he worth a second round pick and would he be able to contribute positively to our defense? Crystal ball says, Maybe.

Scouting report:

Brandon Spikes Scouting Report - 2010 NFL Draft Prospect

Positives:

1. Good size. 6'3 255 lbs. He is physically built to withstand the pounding that BB's inside backers must take in the 3-4.

2. Violent tackler. Now the emphasis is not just on big, highlight hits, but rather the fact that a punishing downhill player will take his toll on the ballcarrier. Hit a guy hard enough over the course of a game and he might develop some hesitation when he sees the same guy coming over to punish him again and again. It is a fact that violent players excel at violent games because the physical part of the game can't be ignored and it's a war of attrition at times.

3. Surprisingly good coverage ability. Makes plays in space. Doesn't look lost out there when defending against the pass.

Negatives:

1. Questionable technique: Does not wrap up as well as he should. This can lead to big plays on missed tackles. Is this a problem? Yes, it's a red flag. Is it correctable with coaching? Possibly.

Some guys never learn to wrap up properly, but it is something that can be improved over time. When I first played football, it wasn't until my second to third year that I really learned to wrap up well. But after I did, I became one of the best tacklers on the team. This is a skill that I believe can be improved with repetition and dedication.

2. Foot speed: Scouting report says he runs about a 4.7. This is not ideal footspeed if you want a rangy sideline to sideline ILB, but isn't that what we have Mayo for? He just needs to be fast enough to stay with tight ends. Not all tight ends have freakish 4.5 speed like Watson, so as long as Spikes can keep up, he could be good enough to be a 3 down player.

3. Shedding blocks: Again this is questionable. And maybe an even bigger red flag than the first two. In BB's 3-4 defense linebackers must be able to stack and shed the blocks of opposing guards. Spikes is a strong player so maybe he just needs to refine his technique. Or maybe this is a skill that can't be improved? I don't know, I never had to face 300 lb guys at the high school level. I probably would have been killed if that had happened. LOL. Explains why I didn't try to play college ball though, that and my college didn't have a football team anyways.

Overall:
Do I think Spikes is equal to Mcclain? No, he has a lot more questionmarks and red flags. I'm not sure how good of a fit he can be for this team unless he can improve on his red flags and weaknesses. But at the very least, I think he could make an impact with his physical play and his coverage abilities are a nice bonus... that is if his footspeed doesn't limit him to the point where he can't stay with most tight ends.

Spikes looks like a mid 2nd to early 3rd round player right now. He might improve his stock at the combine. If anyone gets to see his drills, let me know if he appears to have improved with his block shedding and wrap up techniques. Spikes is a flawed player sure, but it's easy to get wrapped up in the negatives and forget about a player's strengths and what they can bring to the table. At the very least he fits BB's physical mold for the ILB position and his weaknesses might be correctable with proper coaching. He's not the 'ideal' player for us, but he is a player to keep an eye on. Remember that in 2008, he looked like a surefire 1st rounder and even a top 10 player at times.

I wasn't trying to piss on TJ. He was definitely a key cog on our Super Bowl runs. I'm just unsure of having a two down thumper in today's NFL where teams are passing more and more on 1st and 2nd downs.
 
I wasn't trying to piss on TJ. He was definitely a key cog on our Super Bowl runs. I'm just unsure of having a two down thumper in today's NFL where teams are passing more and more on 1st and 2nd downs.

Maybe not as a starter, but having at least one 2-down thumper, for short-yardage & GTG situations, as part of our 8-10 LB corps shouldn't seem unreasonable. Finding somone better inside than the over-matched Gary Guyton needs to be high on Bill's To Do list.
 
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