Indystar article (Who has the edge?) LINK

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by MrTibbs, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. MrTibbs

    MrTibbs Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Is this guy kidding?


    Patriots coach Bill Belichick has his scheme, the shifting 3-4 alignment, which has given Peyton Manning fits in past seasons, especially the playoffs. Colts coach Tony Dungy has one of the league’s most prolific offenses with Manning putting up league-best numbers. Dungy’s speed-emphasis defense has been suspect over the years, but it usually makes just enough stops to allow Manning and his offense to find ways to win. Belichick is considered a master strategist, but he’s lost several assistant coaches to head coaching jobs in recent years, most notably Charlie Weis to Notre Dame, Romeo Crennel to Cleveland and Eric Mangini to the New York Jets. Dungy has one of the league’s most-respected veteran assistants in offensive coordinator Tom Moore. Belichick’s system is more proven – remember, he used to be Bill Parcells’ defensive coordinator for the New York Giants – but Dungy has a more experienced supporting cast.

    Edge: Even.
  2. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

    The ONLY THING that Dungy has is Tom Moore. Because Moore and Manning wear the pants on that team, and do the heavy lifting, while passive-aggressive Dungy simply 'stays the course' and doesn't rock the boat.

    If Dungy had a single bone in his back, he would have built a defense for this team. But he is a 'yes man' all the way for big bully Napolian.
  3. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Dungy is an honorable fellow, and I'm sure that most of his players are better men for having played with him, but a great HC he is not. Doesn't anyone realize that the two teams he has coached had their stregths where, coincidentally, they had their best coordinator?

    I will gladly admit that Indy's D was steadily improving before this year, but the stregth of that team is offense. Tom Moore anyone? And, now with perfect hindsight, it has become clear that Monte Kiffin (as well as ridiculous individual talents) was the driving force of the defense.

    If this was Dungy's second, or even third, year I could understand that his team still needs to be built, but he is now in his 5th year with the team. If he were really a great defensive mind, that D would have progressed a little further. In reality, even in their best year, they were still a little step-sister of the offense. Not only are they not nearly as good as the O, but they need the O to be any good at all. Unless a team must pass, Indy isn't that good at stopping anything.

    Some of that has to fall on Dungy, and any objective analyst/fan/whatever would agree with that.
  4. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    dungy is a timid wuss and so are his players.

    they will never win the big one because they don't have what it takes.

    colt fans/media are just delusional and filled with petty jealousy against the pats. they could never admit the truth to themselves about what their organization's faults are.

    they'll just keep failing.
  5. workhorse

    workhorse Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    They difference between the Colts' defense and Tampa's defense when Dungy was thereis the Colts are still trying to build through draft. Tampa kept their defense intact. The Colts let players walk every year from the defense. They have two reasons for that. First they have a TON of money locked up in their offense (and that was underway even before Tony got there). Second, even though some of the guys they are letting go are good players, the team either believes they have another player that fits just as well waiting in the wings (which had been working at linebacker until this season) or they want too much money.
  6. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Another thing that I thought might fit here is Peter King's take on the game. I will highlight the part that I think is completely off base.

    And that is why you are a terrible analyst, Peter.

    NE isn't even remotely the same team that they were at this point last year, and mentioning that the games were on almost the same date doesn't change this. Doing a little breakdown:

    First off, the best performance in last year's secondary, Samuel's, would presently be the worst in the worst this year, by a wide margin. The Colt game was Bruschi's second game back and Vrabel's second game as a starting ILB, so that was still obviously unsettled. Even the #5 LB slot has been upgraded. Then the DL, Seymour was out and Green was playing with a back injury. Having both of them healthier and adding better depth with Wright changes things dramatically.

    Probably the biggest difference on the DL, though, is the astounding improvement of Wilfork. For those that don't remember, that game was the last game prior to the bye where the coaches decided to move him a yard back. Before then, he was pretty easy to move with one blocker and was actually a liability on most running plays. Since then, it is arguable whether he is the best NT in the game. I don't think he is yet, but a liability he is certainly not.

    Then on offense, NE's running game is so much better that it is almost indescribable how incomparable they really are. Even excluding the addition of Maroney, every single member of the players needed for a running game are healthier and/or playing better, sans Graham. And I have the feeling that he was held back for just this game. If he was not, NE is still so much better at running the ball now, that it is laughable to use last year as a baseline. NE's passing game could have been considered a minor liability prior to this past week, but the performance that the had against a good Minny D shows that, while they may not be at last year's level yet, they are certainly an asset.

    Looking at Indy, their best year on D during their run was last year. By comparison, this year's D has their best point of comparison to the dreadful 2001 version that was one of the worst of all time. I don't think they are that bad, but they are far closer to 2001 defensively, than 2005.

    Offensively, they are pretty much what they were last year. Frankly, Manning might even be playing a litte better, but that is partially offset by the loss of Stokely. I thought they would have a poor running game, but Addai has proven to be a decent representation of James. This is the one and only area that could be considered even close to how they were last year.

    How anyone could be ignorant enough to say that last year is the best point of reference, particularly someone who follows football for a living, is beyond me.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2006
  7. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I understand that Indy has lost some good players due to the salary cap, and that they have had some injury problems this year. I still stand by what I said, though. Dungy is in the second tier of coaches. I don't think he is bad, but he is not a "That coach always has his team prepared" asset. If Indy has a talent advantage, they win. I can't remember the last time they won a game where the teams were equal, however.
  8. brady2brown

    brady2brown On the Game Day Roster

    And doing a lousy job of it. Dungy's been here five years. Pretty much all the players he drafted his first year and most of the players he drafted in his second year have already played out their rookie contracts an have moved on. Basically he has one or two good players to show for five drafts. Part of this is because and Napolian are poor judgesof talent, and part because Dungy is a nice guy but a lousy coach.

    If he wants to build from the draft, that is great. But he has to draft players that can play. The way his is going, in ten years you will STILL be saying, "The Colts are trying to build a team through the draft."

    Remember what happened after Dungy left Tampa Bay? Jon Gruden took the same basic team Dungy had and used it to win the superbowl. Give a decent coach the reins of the Colts and they will be a force. Personally, I hope it doesn't happen. I like Dungy and Manning in Indy. Mr. Incompetent coaches Mr. Choke.
  9. WV-Colt

    WV-Colt Rookie

    as of the denver game, the colts had 6 new starters on the field on defense. that's gonna take some time to work out.
  10. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Yes, I agree. Indy has had some pretty bad injury issues on D. Not nearly as bad as NE last year, but bad nonetheless. My opinion isn't necessarily based on this year, though. It is more of a cumulative thing.

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