ESPN: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

[Bostonian1962]

I'm not one that gets too bent out of shape when somebody rips a player on our Patriots team. However, to call a player that has played 8 regular season games in his entire career, overrated is just plain weird.

Let him figure out how to play the game, learn, work out, improve, and then figure out whether he's overrated or not. It hasn't exactly been all Mayo, all the time on the airwaves. I'm pretty sure any fan that knows anything understands that Mayo, as with most rookies, has a long, long way to go. This is a strange addition to such a list.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

QUESTION: Did Joyner also claim Patrick Willis was overrated last season? I guarantee that Willis was on everybody's lips on NFL network programs as the next Ray Lewis, yet Willis had the same problem Joyner is recognizing for Mayo - he's a rookie trying to execute stack and shed technique against veteran OL who wrestle 300+ pound DTs every snap. If Joyner doesn't have a similar story from last season on Patrick Willis, then the complaints about objectivity have merit.

QUESTION: Have Mayo's POA stats shown any improvement starting with the oldest game and working towards the newest? Again, is Joyner just crunching numbers from the play-by-play, or is he also watching the actual game and assessing runs directly at Mayo? The source of his POA numbers will make a difference.

Now, in Joyner's defense, Mayo's tackle numbers are heavily laden with "pursuit" tackles, where he has chased down a player who has made it past the DL and into the next level. We see this as a positive, rightfully so, that Mayo has the make-up speed to run down RBs and other ball carriers. The now legendary Patrick Willis got his highly suspect tackle numbers last season doing the same thing en route to Defensive Player of the Year.

I haven't focused much on Mayo's run stuffing in recent games because I've been noticing his increased "coverage" role and how it has freed Adalius Thomas to rush the passer vice drop into coverage. Like last season's popular monkey spanking linebacker flavor of the season, Patrick Willis, Mayo is flashing the talent to play the position. Like a rookie Patrick Willis, Mayo is learning OJT and making his mistakes on the field. 5-3 at midseason after the loss of Tommy, Maroney, and Harrison - not to mention Tank Williams who initially had Mayo's slot in Training Camp - and I'm satisfied Mayo is making the transition from college MLB to NFL 3-4 ILB just fine.

 

[Pats726]

I'm not one that gets too bent out of shape when somebody rips a player on our Patriots team. However, to call a player that has played 8 regular season games in his entire career, overrated is just plain weird.

Let him figure out how to play the game, learn, work out, improve, and then figure out whether he's overrated or not. It hasn't exactly been all Mayo, all the time on the airwaves. I'm pretty sure any fan that knows anything understands that Mayo, as with most rookies, has a long, long way to go. This is a strange addition to such a list.

I usually do not care what many commentators think..but Joyner is "a scientist"..and usually has something a BIT deeper...but this is ODD... I think he said OVERATED because he was voted Def Rookie of the month...THAt simple. u name a rookie PLYAER of teh MONTH give out an award and OF COURSE one (like ESPN who hates teh Patriots) has to spit on it like that was the task here...BUT it seems a stretch with so many things he doesn't seem to get about what a LB in a 3-4 has to do..It seemed a REAL stretch...and I would like to see his analysis of other LBs in the same position..I THINK this was an analysis done MORE for the fact he plays for the Pats and was named rookie defensive player of the month than any REAL analysis of LBs...
The context?? NOT there..shoddy in fact..NOT ANY comparisons with OTHER LBs in a 3-4 ...WHY?? It's OBVIOUS ESPN pushed the results MORE than the facts..and THAT my friends is shoddy journalism.. MORE like deciding upon an answer and then going back to find facts to back it up.. VERY disappointed in Joyner.. he's one of them...scientist?? More like one of those scientists who believes in "intelligent design"...FAR FAR from the facts.

 

[Nunchucks]

I don't really think it is abig deal that mayo has been slow to the POA, he is a rookie, he is learning a system and players in the NFL are much faster. At least he is making tackles...unlike some players (Monty). He will get better at diagnosing the pay faster and then hitting up the ball carrier as he gets experence.

Right now he is a little slow to react when compared to the better LBs in the league...huge suprise.

 

[Pats726]

QUESTION: Did Joyner also claim Patrick Willis was overrated last season? I guarantee that Willis was on everybody's lips on NFL network programs as the next Ray Lewis, yet Willis had the same problem Joyner is recognizing for Mayo - he's a rookie trying to execute stack and shed technique against veteran OL who wrestle 300+ pound DTs every snap. If Joyner doesn't have a similar story from last season on Patrick Willis, then the complaints about objectivity have merit.

QUESTION: Have Mayo's POA stats shown any improvement starting with the oldest game and working towards the newest? Again, is Joyner just crunching numbers from the play-by-play, or is he also watching the actual game and assessing runs directly at Mayo? The source of his POA numbers will make a difference.

Now, in Joyner's defense, Mayo's tackle numbers are heavily laden with "pursuit" tackles, where he has chased down a player who has made it past the DL and into the next level. We see this as a positive, rightfully so, that Mayo has the make-up speed to run down RBs and other ball carriers. The now legendary Patrick Willis got his highly suspect tackle numbers last season doing the same thing en route to Defensive Player of the Year.

I haven't focused much on Mayo's run stuffing in recent games because I've been noticing his increased "coverage" role and how it has freed Adalius Thomas to rush the passer vice drop into coverage. Like last season's popular monkey spanking linebacker flavor of the season, Patrick Willis, Mayo is flashing the talent to play the position. Like a rookie Patrick Willis, Mayo is learning OJT and making his mistakes on the field. 5-3 at midseason after the loss of Tommy, Maroney, and Harrison - not to mention Tank Williams who initially had Mayo's slot in Training Camp - and I'm satisfied Mayo is making the transition from college MLB to NFL 3-4 ILB just fine.

I think THAT is certainly a legitimate question..as is if he has improved as time has goen on. I am REALLY surprised that there was NO comparison with other LBs in a similar scheme..t's one thing to start hyping stats but with NO CONTEXT..they mean squat. How much better statistically are OTHER LBs?? Without that the so called "over rated" tag is just that..OVER RATED!! Jotner I think has lowered himself into the ESPN hate machine with this..pretty poor in my estimation...ESPN?? OVERRATED!!!

 

[VJCPatriot]

He would be need to be highly rated in the first place to be considered overrated. Just more hate spouted from the monkey lips of the ESPN media machine. I wonder if he got a bonus to do this article, probably did. You know how much they got off on tearing down the Pats last year. But this is getting real old.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

And ESPN is the most overrated organization for quality sports analysis.

The quality of their product doesn't even matter any more because they have the sports world by the balls. Unfortunately, if I ever want to hear about the pats I have to watch them because I live near Bodymore.

 

[JoePats]

QUESTION: Did Joyner also claim Patrick Willis was overrated last season? I guarantee that Willis was on everybody's lips on NFL network programs as the next Ray Lewis, yet Willis had the same problem Joyner is recognizing for Mayo - he's a rookie trying to execute stack and shed technique against veteran OL who wrestle 300+ pound DTs every snap. If Joyner doesn't have a similar story from last season on Patrick Willis, then the complaints about objectivity have merit.

I got the Pro Football Prospectus this year, and the equivilent of POA in there for Willis was 5.6, but that includes all plays, passing and running, if a pass is defended by him successfully it counts as a 0. It's not perfect and I don't know the breakdown per game or whatnot but it was 5.6 for the season.

 

[matt1073]

ESPN sucks how can you hate on a rookie who goes out and does his job well. I mean the majority of first rounders don't even workout. So a guy whose able to start for our team in his rookie and put up a decent amount of numbers is overrated good job ESPN

 

[Gunnails]

FWIW, I never thought that Mayo received that much hype, except on Pats message boards. He is starting as a rookie, and playing above a Jag level.
Great draft pick,

 

[Bostonian1962]

I usually do not care what many commentators think..but Joyner is "a scientist"..and usually has something a BIT deeper...but this is ODD... I think he said OVERATED because he was voted Def Rookie of the month...THAt simple. u name a rookie PLYAER of teh MONTH give out an award and OF COURSE one (like ESPN who hates teh Patriots) has to spit on it like that was the task here...BUT it seems a stretch with so many things he doesn't seem to get about what a LB in a 3-4 has to do..It seemed a REAL stretch...and I would like to see his analysis of other LBs in the same position..I THINK this was an analysis done MORE for the fact he plays for the Pats and was named rookie defensive player of the month than any REAL analysis of LBs...
The context?? NOT there..shoddy in fact..NOT ANY comparisons with OTHER LBs in a 3-4 ...WHY?? It's OBVIOUS ESPN pushed the results MORE than the facts..and THAT my friends is shoddy journalism.. MORE like deciding upon an answer and then going back to find facts to back it up.. VERY disappointed in Joyner.. he's one of them...scientist?? More like one of those scientists who believes in "intelligent design"...FAR FAR from the facts.

Very, very well said!

 

[JAYHAWKS34]

Espn is what it is it’s the sports network for the US. They take shots at all players and teams, most people here are way to critical of them. People need to take it easy

 

[Bostonian1962]

FWIW, I never thought that Mayo received that much hype, except on Pats message boards. He is starting as a rookie, and playing above a Jag level.
Great draft pick,

Thanks Gunnails! I agree with you. I live in the DC area, and except, like you said, for the Pats' Boards, don't hear boo about Mayo. The author used the fact that he was Defensive Player of the Month as his entire basis for saying Mayo has been overrated. Very strange addition to that list.

 

[primetime]

Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

P.S. I have a lot of respect for KC Joyner's analysis in general; He was hired by ESPN well into his career as the Bill James of football so he's not just some talking head. His books (very much like Baseball Abstract for football) are highly praised.

The problem with comparing KC Joyner to Bill James is that baseball is a game that inherently lends itself to statistical analysis because at its heart it is a one-on-one battle between a pitcher and a batter. Though there are odd happenings, for the most part it's just guy throws the ball, guy swings and either gets on base or gets out. With football, there is so much inherent variety because of the 11-on-11 nature of the game and the flow of play that to break it down statistically requires so much guesswork as to render the work scientifically irresponsible at best. Joyner's statistics come from film study and his data is often subjective. What does it mean that Brandon Marshall is "covered by someone," for instance? Does that mean in man-to-man? My opinion of this might be different from yours which might be different from KC Joyner's. Why are Mayo's numbers low at the point of attack when they would likely be significantly higher while playing in a 4-3 defense, for example? There's just too many variables in football.

Also, Bill James' doctrines have been adopted by several teams and have turned out well. KC Joyner's doctrines are almost completely for entertainment purposes for rubes reading ESPN. James also seems to make statistical analysis and then make assessments, while Joyner appears to make assumptions and then invent statistical calculations in order to prove it. His statistics aren't statistics, they're fun little distractions with no merit in the actual realities of the game of football.

 

[STFarmy]

Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

ESPN would be overrated even if purported to be a piece of s#$t.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

L O L

ESPN - Joyner: Mistakes stunting Jay Cutler's growth

He's accusing Jerod of being an overrated linebacker/player because his tackles are on average 7.2 yards up the field. He doesn't take into account that the D-line and OLBs are supposed to have the first shot at the RB, generally speaking.

ESPN is dead on accurate with this assessment. However I expect Mayo to grow and by year 3 he will be making tackles near the LOS instead of 7 yards down field.

 

[JMarr]

"Right now he is a little slow to react when compared to the better LBs in the league...huge suprise."

I totally agree. But I would take Mayo over half of the veteran LBs in the league right now. Where does this guy come up with the "overrated" label? From reading this board after the draft? Def. rookie of the month? Big deal. And stats are virtually meaningless in evaluating any football player IMO--there are so many variables in play.

As a LB on a BB coached team, the fact that Mayo has started every game and played virtually every down says it all. I wasn't convinced that Mayo would make much of an impact this year, but he's been the most pleasant surprise of the year so far. At this point saying he's overrated is a joke.

 

[jdk19]

I think I remember a QB who was called overated.

3 Superbowl rings and the NFL Touchdown record later.

I will take our chances with Mayo.

We can only hope we have another overated player.