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ESPN: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Phlash, Nov 6, 2008.

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  1. Phlash

    Phlash Rookie

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    ESPN - Joyner: Mistakes stunting Jay Cutler's growth

    He's accusing Jerod of being an overrated linebacker/player because his tackles are on average 7.2 yards up the field. He doesn't take into account that the D-line and OLBs are supposed to have the first shot at the RB, generally speaking.
  2. PatriotDynasty_12

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    :rofl:

    ESPN:rolleyes:
  3. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    And ESPN is the most overrated organization for quality sports analysis.
  4. Phlash

    Phlash Rookie

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    Also, why is Peyton Manning not on this list?
  5. Batman

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    cause he is on the one of the greatest players of the game list.
  6. Sicilian

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    Quote about Brandon Marshall:

    "Marshall also is averaging only 7.0 YPA when facing someone in coverage"

    As opposed to what? The times when they just let him run down the field with no one on him?
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  7. Lifer

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    How can Mayo be overated. Has he made the Pro Bowl or something?
  8. PATSYLICIOUS

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    That's what I thought when I saw the thread title. Outside of this message board and during Pats games I haven't heard a word about Mayo.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    He had Wilfork having a bad year last week. Not that I discount every negative opinion of the Patriots but our run defense has been very solid other than "Wildcat Week" against the Dolphins. Take out that game (legitimate as there's a good sample size and that was not typical) and we're allowing 3.7 YPC which would be a solid 10th in the league - that with Wilfork and Mayo not being too good.

    Right.
  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    ROFLMAO. Nice call, dude!
  11. patsfanindoltsland

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    i could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure that in a 3-4 defense, the job of the d-line is to hold the blockers. the job of the lb's is to hit the gaps and get the tackles, especially in the running game. that's why d-linemen in 3-4 D's rarely get a lot of tackles.

    that being said, 7.2 yards downfield is pretty far downfield. but still, he's a rookie. some of this stuff he will learn. but at least he's making tackles, and not whiffing most of the time, at least from what i've heard.
  12. FrreeeBird

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    I wonder if he was bright enough to come up with different averages for passing and running plays. I'm guessing not. :singing:
  13. ALP

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    the reason why its 7.2....

    because ppl cant run right up the middle on us, and b/c lately mayo has been used in coverage...

    which means that b/c other players dont tackle the rb, he has to go lateral to the field, and to the outside to get the tackle

    or he has to come up from coverage and get the tackle...

    LOL, mayo doesnt miss any tackles, so ill take the 7.2 as being a downfall from other players, then from mr Mayo...
  14. Sicilian

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    That was my thought too. What is his average on running plays? And on how many of those running plays was his primary responsibility to the run? Sometimes LB have to line up and play initially in coverage, then once they read run find their position. If that's the case, the line + three other linebackers are ahead of him in run D before he gets his chance. Backs will run 7+ yards in that time.
  15. patsfanindoltsland

    patsfanindoltsland Rookie

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    i was going to make that point too, but if you read the blurb, joyner is talking about point-of-attack run metrics. so he's not counting passes. joyner's known for being a stats geek, and he quantifies everything possible, but stats don't always tell the story.
  16. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    I don't think I'm violating copyright by posting just the Mayo segment of the article...

    The 7.2yds is on runs, not passes. The POA stats are interesting. Maybe he has a point, at least to some degree.

    Regards,
    Chris

    P.S. I have a lot of respect for KC Joyner's analysis in general; He was hired by ESPN well into his career as the Bill James of football so he's not just some talking head. His books (very much like Baseball Abstract for football) are highly praised.
  17. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    jeezus...this is so transparent I can't believe it...but you stats geeks fall for it eveytime...this freaking nitwit starts off CHERRY PICKING six games out of eight to prove his smarmy professor football idiocy...which ones are they...the first three games he played but not the last two...it's transparent and obvious that this MUTT has some kind of agenda...you want to discuss Mayo, then you use EVERY FREAKING GAME he's played. This idiotic walking colostomy bag may as well be writing science fiction. Just another FESPN paid hater...move along, nothing to see here.
  18. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    and BTW ...ANYBODY who deems a ROOKIE 8 games into his first season "overrated!!!!" is a sub-mongoloid
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2008
  19. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Well, you're right that he should use all 8 games, especially since the Pats have had some wild swings in defensive performances in a handful of games which would clearly skew the results.

    That being said, he obviously is watching the games, paying attention to the blocks and Mayo's ability to shed them. So at least in the games he reviewed, he's not just looking at a stat sheet and drawing conclusions.

    Regards,
    Chris
  20. woolster22

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    I remember watching Mayo make a few tackles on the opposite sideline from where he was lining up at...throw out plays like that and the numbers would probably drop. Not too mention a play here and there where he runs the back down from BEHIND to save a huge play...yup, overrated.
  21. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    If Mayo started pressuring and sacking the QB he would be a complete athlete on this team - For now he is a tackling machine and as a rokie you can't expect it all

    In 2009,I do expect him to have 7-10 sacks in his second campaign and a year in the system
  22. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    This is also a good point. Joyner is focusing on POA plays and ignoring the plays where he may be coming from the backside of a play and saving a long gainer.

    Joyner may show Mayo struggling at the POA, but considering he's a rookie it's not all too surprising. Mayo may be making up for it in other ways that Joyner is not acknowledging.

    Regards,
    Chris
  23. tart

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    I do as well, I've enjoyed him for quite awhile. He knows his stuff, and I don't doubt there is a certain bit of validity to what he is saying. Wish he would've gone a bit more in-depth though with a more comprehensive analysis, rather than just focusing on two stats.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2008
  24. upstater1

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    One way for Mayo to improve these stats is to not try to make tackles on runners who are further down the field. Then his average will improve.

    For now, though, he's as bad as that horrible Brandon Marshall, apparently. I guarantee you that Reche Caldwell did better than 7 yards a catch.
  25. wdkantro2

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    Can someone explain why he claims Marshall's YPA is 7.1, when it is clearly 12.3?
  26. BradyManny

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    I pointed out in another thread why Joyner's stat breakdowns are horribly misleading, particularly for the Patriots.

    Here's a gem from Joyner:
    What this doesn't account for is that Mayo is the fastest member of the front 7, there have been a few plays where a running back got through the first two levels and Mayo went and chased him down. I guess he should've let the running back just go on for a bigger run or a TD, I'm sure he's really pissed that it hurt his POA numbers in Joyner's stat system. :rolleyes:

    Joyner is the reason why blindly looking at stats and box scores to "break down" a game is a dangerous thing.

    Or to put it another way, Bill Belichick has thought enough of Mayo to play him on more snaps than any other defender save for two, and has left a HOF linebacker in Junior Seau sitting in retirement in order to do so. Who knows more about football? Bill Belichick? Or some guy who thinks breaking down a game means looking at charts and box scores and trying to decipher things from numbers.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2008
  27. Ice Cold Bruschi

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    Because clearly Mayo is just getting blown off the line every play and not playing in coverage at all, nope not at all
  28. Disco Volante

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    Re: Mayo one of the top 5 most overrated players in the league

    Just reading this thread title hurts my head.

    Not being sarcastic either, I actually start getting a headache.
  29. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

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    ILBs in Belichick's system don't tend to get a lot of sacks, do they? I can't recall one who had 7 sacks... McGinest, Colvin, Vrabel, etc were always the double digit sack guys, but they're on the outside where it's expected.
  30. PatsFan24

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    LOL espn proves once again they are a joke of a network
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