Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[Boomer B]

#11 would be a steal for butler.

Not so sure. In Butler we know what we have (a pro bowl level CB). The draft (even the near the top) is a crap-shoot. If the drafted player ends up at a pro-bowl level then it would be a steal as we'd have them under a rookie deal for 5 years, but if the pick doesn't play to a pro bowl level (most picks don't) then we'd much rather have Malcolm Butler.

 

[RayClay]

Not so sure. In Butler we know what we have (a pro bowl level CB). The draft (even the near the top) is a crap-shoot. If the drafted player ends up at a pro-bowl level then it would be a steal as we'd have them under a rookie deal for 5 years, but if the pick doesn't play to a pro bowl level (most picks don't) then we'd much rather have Malcolm Butler.

I'm not a draft guy, but you could draft a massive big player for years [DT, DE Left tackle], which would cost a fortune in free agency. On the other hand, a 5'10" cornerback is not that rare. I like Butler, but I think we overrate his value around the league.

 

[oceansizer]

I'll take 11 pick for Butler in a heartbeat. Not because I do not appreciate his CB abillities. He is a very good CB, but this draft is loaded with skillful CBs and other defensive players and of course we have our defensive issues. What is worried me much is Patriots attitude towards Butler's personality. I mean he sounds like a really devoted player to the club alike DMac, Brady and Hightower. I know it's a business, you can find another guy even better than Butler, but you cannot buy player's devotion. They are pros and they should behave like pros, but Malcolm could feel a bit embarrassed because of Gillmore's contract. OK, we are where we are and if he wants to badly leave the organization I am ok with that but only in condition of 11th pick.

 

[rogerthat]

If I'm New Orleans I don't do #11 for Butler. If I'm NE I don't do it, either. This deal is not great for either team so hopefully it doesn't happen at all.

 

[sambam94]

what's all this #11 pick being talked about again..Hasn't it been decided that it just not happening?

 

[TommyD4207]

what's all this #11 pick being talked about again..Hasn't it been decided that it just not happening?

Decided by who? People on this board?

 

[Keyser Söze]

If I'm New Orleans I don't do #11 for Butler. If I'm NE I don't do it, either. This deal is not great for either team so hopefully it doesn't happen at all.

Pffft you could get another top corner signed for 5 years for a lot cheaper than Butler will be.

 

[supafly]

what's all this #11 pick being talked about again..Hasn't it been decided that it just not happening?

Some people are completely delusional when it comes to predicting trade compensation. The Saints aren't parting with their 11th pick. Good lord.

 

[RayClay]

Some people are completely delusional when it comes to predicting trade compensation. The Saints aren't parting with their 11th pick. Good lord.

It is the leverage, though. Other than 11, they need to agree with Pats and with Butler on contract. In their favor, BB and Payton get along.

 

[XLIX]

If NE has leverage over Butler and NO wants Butler desperately, then NE has leverage over NO. It's not that complicated.

And what if they don't "want Butler desperately"? What if they offer #32, no more?

 

[XLIX]

I agree. Butler is a victim of his agent. It seems Pats might have offered him a good contract extension, but his agent stupidly didn't know how RFA works. Butler might be embarrassed, but he has no leverage and NO will not just sign him, they will have to negotiate down. #11 pick and huge contract would be insane for Butler.

What amount did NE offer Butler that he should have accepted?

 

[XLIX]

I'm not a draft guy, but you could draft a massive big player for years [DT, DE Left tackle], which would cost a fortune in free agency. On the other hand, a 5'10" cornerback is not that rare. I like Butler, but I think we overrate his value around the league.

It's easy to say in the abstract "oh we will just draft a top player wth the pick." Not so easy in reality.

 

[Pats-Phan]

Here's what's going on as I see it.

Bill is being a frugile and wants to keep Malcom for the 4 million this year.

Malcolm wants his money since he was a huge part in winning this team 2 superbowls and has made peanuts compared to his peers.

Saints won't part with 11 for Butler.

Bill will match a reasonable deal and everybody knows this.

Malcolm is pissed, weighing his options.

I wish Bill would just pay Malcolm. Dude deserves it and we have the cap space.

 

[XLIX]

Here's what's going on as I see it.

Bill is being a frugile and wants to keep Malcom for the 4 million this year.

Malcolm wants his money since he was a huge part in winning this team 2 superbowls and has made peanuts compared to his peers.

Saints won't part with 11 for Butler.

Bill will match a reasonable deal and everybody knows this.

Malcolm is pissed, weighing his options.

I wish Bill would just pay Malcolm. Dude deserves it and we have the cap space.

If the Saints won't part with 11 then there's no deal to match since they won't sign Butler to an offer sheet.

At that point the question becomes whether or not Bill will take #32 or not

 

[Pats1989]

Patriots could've had one of the best 1-2 CB tandem in the league. Still don't understand trading such elite talent.

 

[JMC00]

I mean he sounds like a really devoted player to the club

Hate to break it to you but he isn't devoted to the team. The minute Pats signed Gilmore his agent started making a stink. He wants to get paid, which is fine but he can't sit there and claim to want to be a Pats player for life and then a day or two later go to NO with the intention to get a big contract from them.

If he was really devoted to the team he would tell his agent to STFU, signed the tender and hope a deal can be worked out that would keep him a Pats player.


Last year after only 1 season of starting and with 2 years left on his rookie deal, his agent went to the Pats and asked to be paid like Talib ($9.5m per), Pats offered $7m which as far as players being in the league only 2 years in is a fair deal because they give up a little money to give the team incentive to give them a significant bump in pay. Instead his incompetent cluessless agent wouldn't budge.

These are not actions of someone who is devoted to a team. You want devoted to a team look at Brady

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

There are two parts to any trade, one the compensation New Orleans sends to NE, either #11 (not likely), #32 ( who knows) or whatever....
AND
Butler and the Saints coming to agreement on a long term contract. They aren't giving up draft picks for one year of Butler at $3.9 million knowing he may bolt as an UDFA next year or live under the franchise tag IF Butler and the Saints can't come to an agreement...
The second part is more important than the first because if they can't come to an agreement, there is no trade. The Saints aren't giving up draft picks for one year of Butler at reasonable money knowing he can bolt next year as UFA if they don't franchise him. The longer this goes on, the less likely I think he is to get traded to New Orleans....
Maybe Belichick is taking the Hightower approach, letting him check out the market and Malcolm is finding out that it isn't what his agent promised him it would be when teams factor in having to give up a draft pick ( or picks) and one year of reasonable ($3.9 million) money.
Butler's options are:
1) Be the good soldier, sign the tender, play lights out and be UFA next year (if Pats don't franchise him).
2) Try to reach a long term agreement with Pats...
3) Not sign tender and sit out year..Then he is right back in same position next year--not likely
4) Not sign tender until week 10 to get credit for the year and if Belichick plugs somebody else in successfully, he is stuck on the bench and loses big money next year ( not likely).
5) Change agents and hope the next one can get a long term agreement that will leave him comfortable for life...

Patriots' options are:
1) Try again to get a long term agreement with Butler now before the season...
2) Wait him out and if he can't come to an agreement with New Orleans, let him sign the tender and you have a solid defensive backfield this year and worry about long term deals next year when he is a UFA. His $3.9 million would be more than he has earned his three prior years total, even throwing in playoff $$ and compensatory bonuses of $600K plus.. Nothing to sneeze at...
3) Trade him to New Orleans If Butler/Saint can come to an agreement with the Pats getting reasonable compensation....
4) Trade Butler to someone else at the draft ( after Butler's agent negotiates a trade to this third team) for reasonable compensation.
5) Cut him. This is cutting off your nose to spite your face unless he became a locker room cancer ( which we have not heard at all) (not likely)...

 

[pdangle]

Why does he need this agent anyway? Up until now all he's had to do or done is sign pre-determined tenders. The agent is trying to get himself paid I think, or show he's actually doing something.

He probably never thought Butler was going to be this good in the first place, and now he's like oh ****, I actually might make some money and get another client or two if I can pull this off.

 

[Marqui]

Patriots could've had one of the best 1-2 CB tandem in the league. Still don't understand trading such elite talent.

Belichick is tired of him.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Why does he need this agent anyway? Up until now all he's had to do or done is sign pre-determined tenders. The agent is trying to get himself paid I think, or show he's actually doing something.

He probably never thought Butler was going to be this good in the first place, and now he's like oh ****, I actually might make some money and get another client or two if I can pull this off.

If the agent were smart, he'd get Malcolm a long term deal. If Butler signs the tender at $3.9 million, agent commission is capped at 2% (78k).If he negotiated a 4/$34 contract 4/10/10/10, the agent's fee would be 3% or $1,020,000.
What's the Wall street Adage, bulls make money, bears make money but pigs gets slaughtered.... Get greedy and you lose....
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https://compliance.sports.uga.edu/w.../2012_NFLPA_Regulations_Contract_Advisors.pdf
Section 4 B

(a) The maximum fee which may be charged or collected by a Contract Advisor shall be: 11 SECTION 3(B) 12 (i) Two percent (2%) for a player who signs a one (1) year tender while subject to a Franchise or Transition designation, or as a Restricted Free Agent;