BB anthology

[RobertWeathers]

That really has only happened with one player, revis.
There have been others that benefitted from the way he coached and utilized them like ayers and hicks but those were not guys who choose to come here as a stepping stone to a big contract they were traded here after being phased out of their last job.

Yep.

Rodney might be another example but I don't think his angle in coming here was to get his dollars up. He wanted to win and make a difference

You hear that kind of sentiment more from UFAs who want to get great coaching and have a legit opportunity to play based on merit and not draft status.

 

[patchick]

That really has only happened with one player, revis.
There have been others that benefitted from the way he coached and utilized them like ayers and hicks but those were not guys who choose to come here as a stepping stone to a big contract they were traded here after being phased out of their last job.

Yeah, few players are as steely-eyed calculating as Revis about maximizing their career $$. But he had seen enough fortuitous examples with the Patriots (Mark Anderson comes to mind) that he knew it would work.

 

[Wax Frog]

make tonnes of cash on a bad team.

The Jets are moving to London???

 

[Tony2046]

That really has only happened with one player, revis.
There have been others that benefitted from the way he coached and utilized them like ayers and hicks but those were not guys who choose to come here as a stepping stone to a big contract they were traded here after being phased out of their last job.

Good point. I would Talib.

Do players get overpaid when leaving the Patriots. Cassel for example.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Might get some really good perspective from the new Michael Holley Book.. due out Tuesday.

Better than listening to the talk show idiots, how have an insatiable need to try to create controversy.. any controversy will do..

Yes, there should be some good details in there...

...except, Holley is one of the talk show idiots; I mean I've tried to listen to him in the past and his opinions and assertions are so insane that it's impossible...just like the rest of them

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Hey @Actual Pats Fan, what do you make of this picture of Brady's hat? It seems like he's a Pat Patriot fan too.

It seems like it. He & Kraft are pretty tight; they're neighbors too. But Tom grew up a Niners fan, so it's not like he's gonna approach Bob and say "What the hell!...What did you do to my team's logo?!"

 

[Tony2046]

Yes, there should be some good details in there...

...except, Holley is one of the talk show idiots; I mean I've tried to listen to him in the past and his opinions and assertions are so insane that it's impossible...just like the rest of them

Wow. I think Holley is one of the more level headed guys on the air.

To each his own I guess.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

On the brighter side ... this is great.
They should make a final graduation exam for “reporters“ - the pressroom meeting with BB.
And they should pay BB for the priceless schooling.

You can't exaggerate how hated Bill was in Cleveland, and I think he learned not to care, if he ever did. He's always had deep emotions ('F*** you, Tom' to Jackson). I've always loved him because he is about football and not fluff or BS. Of course he's been showered with attention since we started winning.

The greatest thing about Bill is, that he is a throwback himself. I've railed about the WWII generation, I obviously disagree with Brokaw, I will never get over the racism and prejudice things. But Bill is one of those who inherited a sense of right and wrong, along with accepting the responsibility for treating all people fairly, and for those like him it was not necessary to say anything, you just did it, you lived it and you were grateful for whatever opportunities life offered, and empathy was not a bad word.

In his first job with the Colts, Marchibroda assigned Bill to personally notify players when they'd been cut. It's maybe the hardest thing for a coach to do. Belichick took every chance he had to learn something and ran with it. I don't want to think of the time when he's not coaching, because he'll leave a huge hole that'll never be filled by anybody else, and the game won't be as much fun.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

That really has only happened with one player, revis.
There have been others that benefitted from the way he coached and utilized them like ayers and hicks but those were not guys who choose to come here as a stepping stone to a big contract they were traded here after being phased out of their last job.

I'm not sure Revis even counts. I mean, if the Jets weren't so awful and save up all that money, there's a good chance he's still a Patriot. I mean it was stupid money, and he had to take it, and I think Jets fans deeply regret it now.

But in terms of guys taking a short deal to build up value, players do it all the time, not just here either. But in terms of Patriots, I can think of Mark Anderson as a good example, and I'd like to think if he stays healthy, Chris Long has built up a nice market for himself. Andre Carter was another example until he got hurt.

It doesn't always work out. Knighton is an example of a guy who took a 1-year prove it deal and didn't fit. But it happens way more often than just Revis.

 

[Ring 6]

Good point. I would Talib.

Do players get overpaid when leaving the Patriots. Cassel for example.

Takib was a trade.

 

[Tony2046]

Takib was a trade.

But he used his time here to increase his value.

Btw: I'm not disagreeing with your initial response. Just wondering if Patriot FA's are overvalued because of the success and/or system.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not sure Revis even counts. I mean, if the Jets weren't so awful and save up all that money, there's a good chance he's still a Patriot. I mean it was stupid money, and he had to take it, and I think Jets fans deeply regret it now.

But in terms of guys taking a short deal to build up value, players do it all the time, not just here either. But in terms of Patriots, I can think of Mark Anderson as a good example, and I'd like to think if he stays healthy, Chris Long has built up a nice market for himself. Andre Carter was another example until he got hurt.

It doesn't always work out. Knighton is an example of a guy who took a 1-year prove it deal and didn't fit. But it happens way more often than just Revis.

Anderson was a guy happy to have a job.
Carter was an aging vet who was near the end of the line and had one last good season. That was a case of coming here to win not to angle for a big lay day.

knightin was another guy just looking for a job.

I think long also came here to win.

My understanding of the discussion was that the claim was BB has outsmarted the competition by convincing players to sign to play cheap for him for one year so he can show them off and they can leave for a big pay day somewhere else.
Just doesn't happen that way aside from the odd case of revis.

 

[Ring 6]

But he used his time here to increase his value.

Btw: I'm not disagreeing with your initial response. Just wondering if Patriot FA's are overvalued because of the success and/or system.

The point made that I was responding to was that BB is genius at recruiting guys to sign here for cheap so they can leave in a year for big $.
There have been players who rehabbed their careers here but those weren't the circumstance.

I think at least in some cases teams over pay ex patriots to being attitude and leadership. Frankly we usually keep the best of them when they are in their prime so the ex patriot aisle in free agency usually isn't a great place to shop.
This year could be different.
At some point when you are a great team the value of your talent far exceeds the cap and it's impossible to keep it together.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

You can't exaggerate how hated Bill was in Cleveland, and I think he learned not to care, if he ever did. He's always had deep emotions ('F*** you, Tom' to Jackson). I've always loved him because he is about football and not fluff or BS. Of course he's been showered with attention since we started winning.

The greatest thing about Bill is, that he is a throwback himself. I've railed about the WWII generation, I obviously disagree with Brokaw, I will never get over the racism and prejudice things. But Bill is one of those who inherited a sense of right and wrong, along with accepting the responsibility for treating all people fairly, and for those like him it was not necessary to say anything, you just did it, you lived it and you were grateful for whatever opportunities life offered, and empathy was not a bad word.

In his first job with the Colts, Marchibroda assigned Bill to personally notify players when they'd been cut. It's maybe the hardest thing for a coach to do. Belichick took every chance he had to learn something and ran with it. I don't want to think of the time when he's not coaching, because he'll leave a huge hole that'll never be filled by anybody else, and the game won't be as much fun.

His dad thought him a lot, hopefully bill passed that on to his kids too....

 

[Canuck]

Not from BB but a beauty quote about him from Lombardi

“He’s never going to flinch. I mean, that’s the thing about Belichick. I’ve often said this about Bill. The beauty of his skill is he’s so patient. If he was in the homebuilding business, and I’ve said this a million times to my friends, he would build one home a year. It’d be the greatest home ever, but it would only be one home a year.”

Where I live there is a master carpenter that literally builds one house a year and in a few cases takes several years to complete. He also does amazing renovations. He has so many offers that he can pick and choose what he wants to work on.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Anderson was a guy happy to have a job.
Carter was an aging vet who was near the end of the line and had one last good season. That was a case of coming here to win not to angle for a big lay day.

knightin was another guy just looking for a job.

I think long also came here to win.

My understanding of the discussion was that the claim was BB has outsmarted the competition by convincing players to sign to play cheap for him for one year so he can show them off and they can leave for a big pay day somewhere else.
Just doesn't happen that way aside from the odd case of revis.

I'd agree that I don't believe BB created that particular idea. The one-year, "prove it" deal has existed for a while now. Lots of players have done that for a long time on a lot of different teams.

But I do think that the Patriots have had more than just Revis. I disagree about Anderson. He got lost in the end at Chicago, but after being cut, he signed with Houston and ended up playing 11 games and getting 4 sacks. There might not have been a huge market for him, but I think it's a bit much to suggest he was happy to have a job.

Long did want to win, but so did Revis. Long may have taken less to win, but also re-build his value on a one-year deal. Long had interest from Washington (a playoff team believe it or not), the Falcons and Cowboys as well. Long could commit for longer than a year if he wanted to stay with a winner, but it's clear he's re-building (successfully) his value.

 

[Tony2046]

The point made that I was responding to was that BB is genius at recruiting guys to sign here for cheap so they can leave in a year for big $.
There have been players who rehabbed their careers here but those weren't the circumstance.

I think at least in some cases teams over pay ex patriots to being attitude and leadership. Frankly we usually keep the best of them when they are in their prime so the ex patriot aisle in free agency usually isn't a great place to shop.
This year could be different.
At some point when you are a great team the value of your talent far exceeds the cap and it's impossible to keep it together.

Yeah it's pretty much a biased assumption that I based my thoughts off of. I do that now and then.

Good stuff Andy.

 

[Gronk]

Well yeah, BB's looking for undervalued talent assets to fill specific, limited roles. It doesn't always work, but there's very few big whiffs because he's generally buying in low. Only Adalius Thomas comes to mind immediately as a high-priced FA or trade who turned to ****, and even he was pretty good the first year. Of the current guys in this category, Mingo's got an Urlacher type raw build and skill set, but it just hasn't fleshed itself out for a variety of reasons. Maybe all the problems that caused him to be ineffective and disposable in Cleveland will elicit the same ending here. But maybe in just asking him to do less, they'll get more out of him, if even just for a year or two.

As for what some of these player get on the open market after flashing in NE, I've used the Hubie Brown line before that sometimes you see a guy scoring 15 ppg in 20 minutes, and figure well **** - if you pay him to start and play him 40 minutes, he'll get you 30 ppg. But you play him...and he still gets 15 ppg, and tons of other flaws in his game get exposed, because that's just the guy he is and you weren't paying enough attention. The Patriots have excelled at being the team that lets the guy score 15 off the bench, and then is prepared to walk away. I think with some of the ex-Pats it's the case that other teams are extrapolating a the view of part-time performance to a full-time player without accounting for the other variables. This happens with bench or backup players on successful teams in every sport. So it's not that BB created the "prove-it" or career-rehab type deal, but he is a high-volume user of the concept, and it's pretty impossible to criticize him for the misses because most years they win 12 games and go to the AFCCG, at least.

 

[long distance]

Let's add this one here as well ..



Taking roster mantra straightforward to technology ..

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Let's add this one here as well ..



Taking roster mantra straightforward to technology ..

Yeah, that's going to go over well with the league. One of the biggest sponsors is Microsoft. BB -- "they're just too undependable."

Let's find out how the league witch hunt over this is going to play out.