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A possible return to the 3-4?


The thing that stands out to me was the RE played as tight DE and the LE was more of a open DE (hybrid, leo, jack).

Hmmm that might be more of a 4-3 over then.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but could I get a refresher on the terms "over" & "under" fronts?
Having some trouble creating a picture in my mind of how they would appear on film.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but could I get a refresher on the terms "over" & "under" fronts?
Having some trouble creating a picture in my mind of how they would appear on film.

Pats Propaganda, Patriots show 4-3 Under Defense vs. Jaguars - 4-3 under as used by New England

Over vs Under:
4-3OverUnder.png


Giants 4-3 over from a few years ago too:
http://forgeriver.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/4-3-over.bmp
 
Yeah those pictures seem a bit off. The DE on the strong side should be in the C gap (known as the "closed end") with a Sam or Will (depending on which side and specifics of the scheme) next to him.
 
Yeah those pictures seem a bit off. The DE on the strong side should be in the C gap (known as the "closed end") with a Sam or Will (depending on which side and specifics of the scheme) next to him.

I'd like to see the depth chart by week 16 be,

Closed DE - Jones, Bequette, Francis
1tech NT - Wilfork, Love, Deaderick (M)
3tech DT - Armstead, Kelly, Deaderick (M)
Leo DE - Collins, Ninkovich (M), Buchanan

Sam - Hightower, Ninkovich (M)
Mike - Spikes, Beauharnais
Will - Mayo, Fletcher

LCB - Talib, Dowling
RCB - Dennard, Ryan
Slot - Arrington, Cole

FS - McCourty, Harmon
SS - T Wilson, A Wilson, Ebner
 
A recent article posted on PatsPulpit recently got me thinking about the direction of this defense going forward, and the possibilities for next season. While the old moniker of being a strict 3-4 or 4-3 team is dead with the increase of sub packages and hybrid fronts, teams are still largely known defensively for what they base out of. For the Patriots, they began the 2000s with a 4-3, winning their first Super Bowl, before switching to the 3-4 in 2003 and becoming one of the most dominant defenses in NFL history. The 3-4 was a staple of Patriots success until 2011, when the team brought in veterans such as Andre Carter, Mark Anderson, and Albert Haynesworth, and began to transition to a 4-3 base. This past year was a further evolution of the transition, though there was still a recognizable 3-4 aspect of it to begin the season.

Bill Belichick has long been a defensive guru, especially with the 3-4. Looking back at his success with the Giants and Lawrence Taylor, it was the 3-4 that won them the Super Bowl. In the book "War Room," it clearly states that Bill has always preferred a defense with 2-gap principles (which to his credit he has still accomplished with the 4-3 they run today).

Ok, no more overhyping the fabled "3-4." But it is still an interesting discussion from a personnel viewpoint. Taking a look at some of the Patriots' most versatile players (positions based on previous experience and my own observations):

* Chandler Jones - Can play 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE
* Rob Ninkovich - Can play 3-4 ILB, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, 4-3 MLB, 4-3 OLB
* Jerod Mayo - Any LB position in 4-3 or 3-4
* Brandon Spikes - 3-4 ILB, 4-3 MLB
* Dont'a Hightower - 3-4 ILB, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 MLB, 4-3 OLB, 4-3 DE
* Jamie Collins - 3-4 ILB, 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE

Using the above players as the foundation, there is clear versatility among the "Linebacker" group. Many can play down at end in 4-man fronts, but they can all play some sort of position in the 3-4. In a NFL where defenses need to get their best athletes out on the field, would the 3-4 allow them to do as as opposed to the 4-3?

Looking at possible lineups:

3-4:
DE - Chandler Jones - Jake Bequette
NT - Vince Wilfork - Kyle Love
DE - Armond Armstead - Tommy Kelly
OLB - Dont'a Hightower - Michael Buchanan
ILB - Jerod Mayo
ILB - Brandon Spikes - Dane Fletcher
OLB - Rob Ninkovich - Jamie Collins

vs:

4-3:
DE - Chandler Jones - Michael Buchanan
DT - Vince Wilfork - Tommy Kelly
DT - Kyle Love - Armond Armstead
DE - Rob Ninkovich - Justin Francis
OLB - Dont'a Hightower - Jamie Collins
MLB - Brandon Spikes - Dane Fletcher
OLB - Jerod Mayo

While both fronts utilize largely the same personnel (making for easy transitions between fronts in a hybrid scheme), you can see that in the 3-4 front, there would be more flexibility and more ways to get the strongest part of your roster (the Linebackers) onto the field.

Maybe there is some evidence to support this with how Jamie Collins and Michael Buchanan were drafted (both very good 3-4 players in college), or maybe I just wasted your time with this thread. I still think it's an interesting discussion to have.

Thoughts?

Should Patriots Look to the 3-4? - Pats Pulpit

I'd say you've already illustrated the "answer" - just in posing the "question" and also provided a lot of good illustration and background (even if some want to nitpick on certain positional assignments)

What Belichick craves is having the personnel able to alter defenses to take advantage of mismatches. As great an NT as Wilfork is this means that more often than not he's at DE - same with other players.

So it was, and likely remains, a hybrid defense. Which one gets primarily used depends on the game and the matchups.
 
I'd say you've already illustrated the "answer" - just in posing the "question" and also provided a lot of good illustration and background (even if some want to nitpick on certain positional assignments)

What Belichick craves is having the personnel able to alter defenses to take advantage of mismatches. As great an NT as Wilfork is this means that more often than not he's at DE - same with other players.

So it was, and likely remains, a hybrid defense. Which one gets primarily used depends on the game and the matchups.

I think that Wilfork spent a lot of time as a 34 DE in 2011 with Love spending the majority of the time at NT. We played a more traditional 43 front with him in a 1tech position over the guard in 2012.
 


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