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A consistent theme in this year's personnel moves

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Dec 4, 2011.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    BB is being ruthless about cutting guys who don't put in the effort or demonstrate the right attitude.

    Note: Chad 85 is NOT such a guy. And he hasn't been cut.

    Price, Adams, Haynesworth, Meriweather ... they're examples. Bodden too, it seems.

    Obviously, some cuts have nothing to do with that -- e.g., most or all of Sanders, Butler, Wilhite. And obviously Ventrone as well. Still, I think BB is again putting culture/whatever extremely high on the priority list.
  2. Wax Frog

    Wax Frog Rookie

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    Has he ever done otherwise? :confused: Maybe it's more obvious this go-round, but hasn't the organization always been a meritocracy under his watch?
  3. DarrylS

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    This is not a new strategy, either you work hard and progress or you walk..

    Have difficulty with Ocho Cinco, but if were to guess at this juncture of the season probably tough to find another receiver who can adapt to this offense...

    Bodden had injury issues, and subsequent back(??) surgery.
  4. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Agreed. To play on this team you need four main attributes...

    1) Talent
    2) Worth Ethic
    3) Ability to apply teachings on game day
    4) Team Player

    It's all pretty obvious but you can go back to every single in-season roster move BB has made and trace back to the player missing one or multiple attributes.

    Haynesworth was missing 1, 2 and 4.

    Bodden was missing 1. The poor guy needed back surgery.

    Price was missing 3 for sure. Insinuating that he was missing 2 and 4 is speculation.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  5. Mike the Brit

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    The argument is circular.

    X, Y and Z are cut. The reason: they didn't put in the effort or demonstrate the right attitude. The evidence: they were cut.

    We know that Haynesworth was a pretty bad guy in the past and that Meriweather hangs out with some bad people (and isn't much of a scholar). But neither means that they didn't work and do what was asked when they were here. And I don't know of any evidence that Price or Adams did anything wrong. Bodden was a hard-working and well liked team-mate (if all that Brady can say when he's cut is "He's a friend of mine, but I don't make the decisions around here" you know all that you need to about that). Then there's Sanders -- the reliable guy who was always praised for his attitude and work ethic. I'd add Ty Warren to the list of good citizens now gone.

    You might just as well say that BB is a capricious old tyrant who, increasingly frustrated with his failure to recapture past glories, blames his players instead of himself and cuts them on a whim, even though he has no one better in mind with whom to replace them.

    Which is right? I've no idea -- and I don't think that you do either.
  6. BaltimorePatsFan

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    BB needs to get out of the draft room during rounds 2 and 3.
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Vollmer, Gronkowski, Chung, Spikes... and to a lesser extent Dowling and Vereen all say hi!!!

    We have a lot of picks, and the draft is a crap shoot..

    Suggest reading Michael Holley's, "War Room".
  8. Gwedd

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    Agreed. It's always a risk. You can do all the due diligence in the world, but some guys just will not. for whatever reason, fit in. They just cannot rise to the next level, or even to the level of expectations.

    That's NOT a knock on them, per se. Sometimes it is as simple a thing as being overwhelmed by the learning curve. Put a kid into the national spotlight, hand him more money than he or his family have likely ever seen, have an agent telling him he's the "best in the world", and let him loose on town with all the dangers awaiting him....

    Then add what is likely the ,most complex playbook he's ever seen, ask him to learn a new technical language, and then to change his style of play from what he was doing in college to a new system based upon situational awareness, and you've got one h3ll of a case of culture shock waiting for him.

    To my mind the wonder is not that so many don't last long, but that any of them succeed at all.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  9. MoLewisrocks

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    Actually I do, and it's not that difficult to given Bill's history with players.

    Haynesworth remained focused on doing what he felt was best for Haynesworth. That seemed to be the same affliction that Merriweather developed. Haynesworth is one of the most talented players Bill ever had to work with but lipservice aside he lacked any drive to perform commensurate with his talent. Guys like that spread an insidious form of locker room cancer without ever uttering a sound... Merriweather was equally self absorbed although he didn't lack effort or drive, just brains. Too focused on his own game to be coachable within a system and not quite talented or instinctive enough to succeed as a freelancer. Again, those guys can spread a form of cancer in a locker room that is difficult for fanboys to detect. Bodden and Warren seemed to have a different (from the aforementioned) but similar problem (to each other) in that once paid they just couldn't seem to get or stay healthy and productive (and of course Warren also opted to finish his degree during his career - not to mention on the heels of a season where Bill questioned the effectiveness of the core leadership on his defense - rather than focusing his offseason on doing whatever it took to be the most productive player he could be during his limited career...). Part of Bodden's job was to develop his young protoge as a consumate pro...but you can't teach something you don't really grasp yourself... Sanders was a bit of a woe is me playing time malcontent who got overpaid based on potential failed to develop beyond his apparent high floor/low ceiling. He had the brains and basic work ethic to consistently lead a young defense on the field but persistently lacked or failed to develop the ability to simply play his own position at anything more than a marginal level... You cannot lead from the tub...or the bench. Price couldn't manage to snag a foothold on the wide open least competitive position on the roster...and he didn't play on ST either. Of course that begs the question why not Ocho, but the answer is probably short of the contract and career resume and personal charm he's made a living off of it was a coinflip... Bill brought a jag in to push those two and he ended up passing them on the depth chart in a matter of days... If I were Ocho I'd start praying not only for catches but for ongoing health at every other position on the roster...

    What a capricious old frustrated tyrant...why else would you consistently can overpriced or overhyped or egocentric or maddeningly inconsistent underachievers...:bricks:
  10. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    LOL......out of all of them, only one stands to be effective today....

    dowling? he has certainly shown up as advertised (hurt).
  11. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    the consistency in this year's roster moves is the willingness to admit a mistake.....god knows there have been enough of them.

    bailing on high draft picks so regularly underscores a more prevalent issue between the inability to develop college players and the inability to properly scout them in advance.

    the fact remains that a player either shows up from college and is productive right away, or they never produce to properly reflect the draft pick that they were.

    I believe it is a development issue at the hands of the coaches. the case in point is ochocinco......he had been productive his entire career until he got here.....now he may as well be bethel johnson....I put it on the coaches that they invested a fairamount of money in a player, and then can't find a way to make use of his skills. It is like buying a flat screw driver with the intent of making it a philips screw driver
  12. RayClay

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    With the exception Of Brady and Wilfork, we've turned around practically a whole team on both sides (Lights young replacements already here, other marginals still here, but the point is valid).

    BB knows from experience how hard it is to develop a core like he had in the championship years, many from Parcells while he was a coach there.

    How many young players did we develop then? You can almost count them. Our vets were hard corps and coaches on the field and in the locker room.

    Does one bad apple spoil the bunch? On a young team, maybe. Lots of impressionable young men who could follow the freelancers, the half assers, and lose their potential to be great.

    At the same time, there's always some guy from a small school, or who started late or had injuries who just knows all he needs is a chance.

    With a young team, given ample opportunities is BB going to wait for "potential" for a guy who doesn't get it after repeated trials and opportunities (every practice is an opportunity).

    Or is he going to turn over rocks and try out gis until he finds a Wes Welker, a Kyle Arrington, a BJ?

    Who grabbed every opportunity they had and ran with it, Arrington or Butler? It's a joke, it's not even close. Meriweather got worse, not better.

    You're either moving forward, or back. BB's building himself a new army and if you don't keep up, you're gone. Let's see if Underwood has the stuff. Our passing system has always been better than the sum of it's parts and finding one guy who nails it is worth 10 hotshots that have a "better" way IMO.
  13. Mike the Brit

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    Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing one way or the other -- just pointing to the circular reasoning. If you've got some independent evidence, that's great -- I'm interested to hear it.

    Speaking personally, it doesn't matter much to me. I'm still living on the enjoyment of SB XXXVI. Everything else has been a bonus.

    My guess is that it's very hard to judge BB -- especially not from the outside. Like all of us, he has strengths and weaknesses, but in his case the strengths and the weaknesses seem to be very close together. So his consistency and calmness can turn into a failure to communicate and motivate, but then a blowhard, pants-on-fire coach can be a weakness in the long run. And so on.

    But now there's a game on. Go Pats!!!!
  14. DaBruinz

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    The only problem with this is that there have been a couple of reporters who have mentioned that Price being waived had more to do with the need for roster spots than lack of talent from Price and that Price could be back if he's not claimed. What the truth is, we'll never know.
  15. Fencer

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    I'm guessing that the beat reporter(s) who outright said Price's work ethic were lacking had basis for their "speculation".
  16. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I was a little hasty in implying that the reporters had a consensus around poor work ethic for Price. Still, it rang true when I read it (one of the major news blogs, I forget which).
  17. TheBostonStraggler

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    You'd have "no idea" only if you choose to take a single snapshot and disregard a very well established track record. Anyone, and I do mean anyone, who chooses to look at the track record will justifiably scoff at your 'could be either one, nobody really knows'.
    It is established you are less than happy with the state of the Patriots and with BB's stewardship. That's your own judgement call to make. However, letting that cloud what historical fact has so well established is a shakey position to perch upon.
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