“Roger’s doing a great job” - Lawsuit alleges NFL explicitly discriminates against black players in concussion settlements

[The Brandon Five]

A baseline for any medical diagnosis is important to determine a prognosis. Someone with a congenital heart defect needs that fact to be used in the equation. Where that patient is 10 years later is going to be different than a person that started with a healthy heart is. The question is what to degree each person has declined from where they started. Why wouldn't that also be true with cognitive abilities?

They don’t have an actual cognitive test from before they played football. They make adjustments to the results of the test applied now based on race. That’s the issue.

 

[1960Pats]

Do you think that's a genetic thing or is it a product of culture and circumstance?

Exactly my question. I know there are cultures that could be considered racist, but how did they get that way?
Tell a Korean father that his daughter is going to marry a Japanese man and watch the reaction. He'll probably flip out.
I once heard an Irish/Scottish man who constantly preached integration tell another man that his daughter should marry "one of their own"
There are many countries in the world that you'd have a difficult time finding people of other nationalities or people of color.

 

[1960Pats]

They don’t have an actual cognitive test from before they played football. They make adjustments to the results of the test applied now based on race. That’s the issue.

That's the claim but I thought there were some who said they didn't follow that procedure.

When we look at football and the fact that 70% of the league is black but the opposite is true of HC's, OL and QB's, then we have to wonder why. Is it because the NYFL is racist or do they feel there's a reason for that disparity?

 

[XLIX]

Well clearly that is not how it works. If you read the article,

I did read the article (and several others on the subject) and what I said is exactly how it works. The black players are assumed to have had a lower baseline before entering the league than the white players, therefore they have to register lower than white players after the fact in order to qualify for equal amounts of money.

Whether or not you find this to be racist is between you and your conscience. I sure know where I stand.

Without volumes of more facts there is no way to draw a conclusion but no they don’t measure on a scale and assume black players were stupid to begin with.

From the article (which you clearly didn't read): "... these 'norms' assume that the average Black player starts at a lower level of cognitive functioning than the average white player at the outset of their careers,"

That reinforces exactly what I claimed when I said "The NFL assumes black players are dumber - whoops, excuse me, I mean they have a "lower level of cognitive functioning" - at the start of their careers than white players. "

 

[The Brandon Five]

That's the claim but I thought there were some who said they didn't follow that procedure.

When we look at football and the fact that 70% of the league is black but the opposite is true of HC's, OL and QB's, then we have to wonder why. Is it because the NYFL is racist or do they feel there's a reason for that disparity?

When the evaluator didn’t use it the league cited that as a violation of the guidelines (all while claiming that they are only “recommendations”).

 

[Ring 6]

I did read the article (and several others on the subject) and what I said is exactly how it works. The black players are assumed to have had a lower baseline before entering the league than the white players, therefore they have to register lower than white players after the fact in order to qualify for equal amounts of money.

Whether or not you find this to be racist is between you and your conscience. I sure know where I stand.

From the article (which you clearly didn't read): "... these 'norms' assume that the average Black player starts at a lower level of cognitive functioning than the average white player at the outset of their careers,"

That reinforces exactly what I claimed when I said "The NFL assumes black players are dumber - whoops, excuse me, I mean they have a "lower level of cognitive functioning" - at the start of their careers than white players. "

You are conflating the facts. It is absolutely not true that the nfl assumes blacks have a lower cognitive level. And it is absolutely no a scale of 1 to 10 and points are subtracted if you are black.
What is true is that factoring demographic data to assess individual expected levels which include race among many other things RESULT IN BLACK PLAYERS BEING ASSIGNED LOWER STARTING POINTS ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE CLAIMING IT. The result may negatively impact minorities if these claims are correct but that does not mean it was designed to be racist.

You are trying to say that, first what is being claimed is fact, and second that a commonly used process to determine a baseline was just a scam to punish a group. It is possible that the system they use resulted in unfair bias against black people. Unless someone sat down and plotted out a system specifically to deny treatment solely on the basis of race it is not racist.

 

[XLIX]

You are conflating the facts. It is absolutely not true that the nfl assumes blacks have a lower cognitive level. And it is absolutely no a scale of 1 to 10 and points are subtracted if you are black.

You obviously either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote.

Small surprise.

 

[Ring 6]

They don’t have an actual cognitive test from before they played football. They make adjustments to the results of the test applied now based on race. That’s the issue.

Based upon demographics which include race. That’s a big difference. This a series of tests. Not an in test. They establish baselines by demographically grouping people. They do not make an adjustment based upon race.

 

[Ring 6]

You obviously either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote.

Small surprise.

Of course I did i basically quoted it.
here it is again.

For example, suppose "cognitive functioning" was a scale of 0 to 10, and 5 is average. A retired white player and retired black player each measure a 4. The white player gets paid because he probably lost cognitive function. The black player doesn't get paid because he was probably a 4 all along.

maybe you should read what you write.

 

[Ring 6]

You obviously either didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote.

Small surprise.

Now from the article.

At the crux of the controversy: the NFL’s concussion settlement program manual recommends the use of a “full demographic correction,” in which a player’s cognitive test scores are compared to average scores, or “norms,” for similar demographic groups, and then adjusted to account for expected differences in age, gender, education — and race.

The practice, widely known as “race-norming,” is in use across several different medical fields as a supposed safeguard against misdiagnosis.

This is not even close to what you are saying.
The scores are compared to an average of the individuals demographic group including many factors, far from just race as a WIDELY ACCEPTED standard to prevent misdiagnosis. That is not racist.

more from the article.


In a declaration submitted to the court overseeing the settlement, Dr. Scott Millis, one of the neuropsychologists who helped design the program, said the consideration of “demographic factors, including race, when assessing premorbid intellectual functioning” is both a “widely-used” and “commonly accepted” clinical practice.

“Race demographic normative adjustments, in particular, were designed and intended by the neuropsychological community to correct for the fact that certain racial groups were consistently obtaining disproportionately low scores on cognitive testing and thus were being incorrectly classified as cognitively impaired,” Millis wrote. “Misdiagnoses of cognitive impairments … can be very harmful. A misdiagnosed retired player could undergo unnecessary treatment, or plan his future based on a misunderstanding of his current abilities and likely progressive decline.”

 

[venecol]

When I hear cognitive test all I can think of is:

"Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV."

 

[XLIX]

Of course I did i basically quoted it.
here it is again.

maybe you should read what you write.

What part of “for example” did your feeble mind not comprehend, Andy?

 

[Ring 6]

What part of “for example” did your feeble mind not comprehend, Andy?

Ok so you admit you were wrong. Gotcha.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

If it is true and I believe it probably is, I hope they nail the NFL. It's nice them being in the cross hairs for once or as the expression goes, " ain't no fun when the deer has the gun."
Wonder how the league will try to blame the Patriots for this one......

 

[XLIX]

Ok so you admit you were wrong. Gotcha.

OK so you admit you didn't understand my post and then misrepresented it in your response. Thank you.

 

[Ring 6]

OK so you admit you didn't understand my post and then misrepresented it in your response. Thank you.

I understood it entirely. Putting “for example” in front a total incorrect statement does not excuse it being wrong.

 

[XLIX]

I understood it entirely. Putting “for example” in front a total incorrect statement does not excuse it being wrong.

My example demonstrates exactly what they are doing. They are assuming black players start at a lower level than white players, therefore creating a situation where they have to drop even further on the back end. You inability to understand how this works does nothing to change this.

I now leave you to have the last word that your feeble, childlike mind demands you must always have......

 

[Ring 6]

My example demonstrates exactly what they are doing. They are assuming black players start at a lower level than white players, therefore creating a situation where they have to drop even further on the back end. You inability to understand how this works does nothing to change this.

I now leave you to have the last word that your feeble, childlike mind demands you must always have......

They do not rate on a scale of 1 to 10 and take points away for being black.

They are not assuming anything.
They are applying demographic characteristics to each case to establish the starting point. SOME PEOPLE CLAIM it had the unintended consequence of harming blacks. 100% different than what you say.
It would also negatively impact older players because their baseline starting point would be lower. It would also impact those with less education, and many other characteristics. It is also a WIDELY ACCEPTED PRACTICE.

I will leave you with this.
I do usually get the last word because I am right and people like you leave rather than admit it.

To prove this point while all of my posts have been directly on topic specifically discussing your misunderstanding of the facts and educating you on them, yours due to the lack of being able to do that are rife with personal attacks.
You are like the child that has done wrong, knows it but can’t accept it and when punished cries “you are mean, I hate you” to his parents.
It’s really very sad, I hope you can overcome that character flaw.

 

[XLIX]

If it is true and I believe it probably is, I hope they nail the NFL. It's nice them being in the cross hairs for once or as the expression goes, " ain't no fun when the deer has the gun."
Wonder how the league will try to blame the Patriots for this one......

I'd love to see the NFL get nailed for this one too, but I am very curious about what the settlement legalese says about how these things are supposed to be measured. This negotiation/litigation went on for years and settled for about a billion. I find it hard to believe that the question "how are we going to measure a player's cognitive decline?" - which is entirely the basis of the lawsuit- was something the lawyers just, you know, left up in the air for the NFL to decide unilaterally.

My concern is that the NFL could reply to the complaint by saying "this is the methodology your own counsel agreed to, so don't blame us...."

 

[XLIX]

They don’t have an actual cognitive test from before they played football. They make adjustments to the results of the test applied now based on race. That’s the issue.

Exactly. Since there were no tests from years/decades ago for all these players as they started their careers, they are retroactively assigning lower scores to the black players as a starting basis. If the allegations are correct, black players literally have to fall lower than white players to qualify for an equal share.