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Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court


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So how long and detailed are the briefs allowed to be? Do they need to be really short and concise like a resume or can they essentially write a book presenting a point by point smackdown of every single thing the NFL has claimed?

If I were Olsen this is all it would say as pointed out above by someone else.

"You were lied to"

-Olsen

Edit: A brief is usually short. So I imagine it wouldn't be very long although I'm sure someone who is much more familiar with it could lend more insight.
 
One would think that the request for the extra time was so that Olsen can slam dunk this brief. I think that reviewing how and when the NFL* lied to the courts, was ignorant of the science, and is still prosecuting an event that never happened is crucial. Also, the entire process, from the bought and paid for "independent" investigation to the arbitration hearing that was fundamentally unfair, should also be detailed and hammered home. This ruling has major implications to Labor Law in the US. It needs to be reheard by the full court.

I'm expecting a scorched earth brief this week. At least, I sure hope so.
 
One would think that the request for the extra time was so that Olsen can slam dunk this brief. I think that reviewing how and when the NFL* lied to the courts, was ignorant of the science, and is still prosecuting an event that never happened is crucial. Also, the entire process, from the bought and paid for "independent" investigation to the arbitration hearing that was fundamentally unfair, should also be detailed and hammered home. This ruling has major implications to Labor Law in the US. It needs to be reheard by the full court.

I'm expecting a scorched earth brief this week. At least, I sure hope so.

As far as the independence of the Wells investigation and report goes I would not contest their right to have a biased investigation, instead I would point out that the NFL conceded it wasn't impartial by claiming their work product was covered by attorney client privilege, and then showing that even a biased investigation could not come up with any evidence of guilt or participating in a scheme by Brady, and that the league had repeatedly twisted their findings in subsequent briefs to the courts.
 
I think it's the tack that would work the best, establish that there was never any evidence that Brady was guilty and that the league had to lie to the courts to make their case. Arguing the scope of Goodell's authority does no good if the justices are of the misguided belief that Brady is guilty.
So, in a nutshell, you're suggesting that Olson's argument should be that: given a documented record of lies and deception by the NFL, beginning with the leak to Mort and continuing through the bad science of the Wells report and through the involvement of League Staff in the Report's drafting and right up to Clement's misrepresentations at the Appeal, the Court should determine that fundamental fairness and honesty outweigh the Commissioner's right under Article 46 to be the final judge and jury when it comes to assessing the validity of the League's determination that a violation occurred and the penalty that can, broadly defined, be imposed for that violation?

In other words, you are suggesting that the argument should be that if the Commissioner's ruling is the "fruit of a poisoned tree," then it is invalid, whatever the force of Article 46 might or might not be?

I'm not asking that in a contentious manner, I just want to be sure that I understand what you are saying.
 
I wonder if the delay was hoping the Peterson decision would come down. If the decision does not come
down or is against the NFLPA, the white flag is hoisted.
 
So, in a nutshell, you're suggesting that Olson's argument should be that: given a documented record of lies and deception by the NFL, beginning with the leak to Mort and continuing through the bad science of the Wells report and through the involvement of League Staff in the Report's drafting and right up to Clement's misrepresentations at the Appeal, the Court should determine that fundamental fairness and honesty outweigh the Commissioner's right under Article 46 to be the final judge and jury when it comes to assessing the validity of the League's determination that a violation occurred and the penalty that can, broadly defined, be imposed for that violation?

In other words, you are suggesting that the argument should be that if the Commissioner's ruling is the "fruit of a poisoned tree," then it is invalid, whatever the force of Article 46 might or might not be?

I'm not asking that in a contentious manner, I just want to be sure that I understand what you are saying.

Is this a good idea or not??
 
motions to exceed page limits are freely granted.
Will Brady be accused of playing fast and loose with the page limit if that's the case?
 
So, in a nutshell, you're suggesting that Olson's argument should be that: given a documented record of lies and deception by the NFL, beginning with the leak to Mort and continuing through the bad science of the Wells report and through the involvement of League Staff in the Report's drafting and right up to Clement's misrepresentations at the Appeal, the Court should determine that fundamental fairness and honesty outweigh the Commissioner's right under Article 46 to be the final judge and jury when it comes to assessing the validity of the League's determination that a violation occurred and the penalty that can, broadly defined, be imposed for that violation?

In other words, you are suggesting that the argument should be that if the Commissioner's ruling is the "fruit of a poisoned tree," then it is invalid, whatever the force of Article 46 might or might not be?

I'm not asking that in a contentious manner, I just want to be sure that I understand what you are saying.


I would argue that the NFL and their representatives lied to the court about the process they used, the findings of that process, and Brady's testimony, and as such abused the authority entrusted to them by the CBA.
 
I would argue that the NFL and their representatives lied to the court about the process they used, the findings of that process, and Brady's testimony, and as such abused the authority entrusted to them by the CBA.
I understood that and certainly agree. But, I'm trying to understand your point. Are you arguing that the lies and abuse invalidate the applicability of the "authority entrusted to them by the CBA?"
 
I'm trying to understand his position first.

I think the nutshell versions of both side's position:

NFL: A deal is a deal. Under the CBA the facts are whatever Goodell says they are and due process is whatever Goodell says it is. If you don't like how this plays out, too bad.

Brady/Union: We negotiated for notice under the CBA. We are entitled to due process during the arbitration process.

I'm still gobsmacked that two morons in CA2 bought the NFL's argument.:mad:
 
I understood that and certainly agree. But, I'm trying to understand your point. Are you arguing that the lies and abuse invalidate the applicability of the "authority entrusted to them by the CBA?"


Yes. The union gave the league authority for discipline with the understanding the process would be fair and honest, the league violated that trust and their lies to the courts demonstrate that. If their process had been fair they would not have had to lie to the courts about it.
 
Yes. The union gave the league authority for discipline with the understanding the process would be fair and honest, the league violated that trust and their lies to the courts demonstrate that. If their process had been fair they would not have had to lie to the courts about it.

[Apologies for the length of this Post]

I begin by admitting that I am in way over my head here and ask someone with knowledge of Appellate Law and who is familiar with Supreme Court decisions to correct me where I need correction. If someone is just going to say that “the Garvey ruling sucks,” well, that’s not helpful since I already agree with that.

In the Case of the Major League Baseball Players Association vs. Garvey (532 US 504 2001), the Supreme Court of the US, regarding a Petition for Writ of Certiorari to the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (No. 00-1201 Decided May 14, 2001), overturned CA9’s ruling that the District Court remand the Case to arbitration with instructions to enter an award for Garvey. SCOTUS held that “Judicial review of a laborarbitration decision pursuant to a collective-bargaining agreement is very limited. Courts are not authorized to review an arbitrator's decision on the merits despite allegations that the decision rests on factual errors or misinterprets the parties' agreement [my emphasis]… Only when the arbitrator effectively dispenses his own brand of industrial justice [my emphasis] may his decision be unenforceable. Steelworkers v. Enterprise Wheel & Car Corp., 363 U. S. 593, 597.”

Three observations before I move on to the Steelworkers Case:

One. Yes, that means that Goodell, as Arbiter, can uphold a decision that is based on bad science because, in Garvey, the Supreme Court found that the facts are more or less irrelevant in “a laborarbitration decision pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement” as long as the Arbiter's ruling "draws its essence" from the relevant CBA (see Steelworkers below).

Two. Yes, it means that the debate over Notice could be construed as not definitive because the Arbiter’s decision is allowed to “[misinterpret] the parties agreement” and still be regarded as valid. That’s almost unfathomable to me and leaves me, as it did another poster, “gobsmacked,” but it is what SCOTUS held. CA2 found that the language of the CBA is so broad as to allow for multiple interpretations of what “notice” has been provided in the CBA.

Three. I’m amazed that more people haven’t pointed out that Judge Berman chose the key words in his finding based on these two cases; “his own brand of industrial justice” has roots that are over 50 years old for SCOTUS. I’m sure it’s been discussed by the experts, but I’m afraid I’ve missed it. Most people have treated it like a clever turn of phrase by Judge Richard M. Berman!

In the case to which Judge Berman was making reference and to which SCOTUS refers above (United Steelworkers of America v. Enterprise Wheel & Car Corp, 363 US 593, Certiorari to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, Decided June 20, 1960) SCOTUS held (363 US 597) that “When an arbitrator is commissioned to interpret and apply the collective bargaining agreement, he is to bring his informed judgment to bear in order to reach a fair solution of a problem.….Nevertheless, an arbitrator is confined to interpretation and application of the collective bargaining agreement; he does not sit to dispense his own brand of industrial justice [my emphasis]…his award is legitimate only so long as it draws its essence from the collective bargaining agreement [my emphasis]. When the arbitrator's words manifest an infidelity to this obligation, courts have no choice but to refuse enforcement of the award. [my emphasis]”

So, I imagine that Olson might argue that Goodell as Arbiter has relied on and indeed been complicit in a pattern of deception that manifest an infidelity to…[his] obligation” and that therefore his ruling fails to “…[draw} its essence from the collective bargaining agreement.”

That’s a very serious charge to make and make stick in open Court, but the Ted Olson who took no prisoners in arguing Bush v. Gore is the kind of guy to do so.

So, if this should ever get to SCOTUS, will the Court find that Garvey is definitive and “factual errors or [misinterpretations]” should be effectively disregarded or will the Court find that Judge Berman was correct in determining that Commissioner Goodell had indeed dispensed “his own brand of industrial justice” by his actions and thus demonstrated “infidelity to [his] obligation?”

I have no idea how that will play out, but I do know two things:

1) It will be very helpful if CA8 finds for Peterson and there are two conflicting rulings from two different Circuits. That would increase the likelihood of SCOTUS taking the Case (yes, that means I don’t think that the NFLPA has much of a chance of winning an en banc proceeding in CA2).

2) It will also be helpful, should this case ever get to SCOTUS, if the case is not heard until after HRC has a chance to appoint another liberal justice sympathetic to Labor to the Court.
 
Just thinking about this whole situation makes me want to scream into the void. Its just so goddamned stupid.

I remember being so optimistic last spring before the Wells Report came out that the "worst case scenario" was that the NFL would levy a fine on Brady for a lack of cooperation, and even that possibility pissed me off. And then we finally get vindication via Judge Berman seemingly putting this whole mess to bed but NOOOO the NFL cannot let this go and we got royally f.ucked by two judges, one who somehow believed that the NFL's made up evidence was actually convincing and another who has their anti-labor bias so ingrained that he got moist just thinking about Article 46 being shoved up his ass.

I'm honestly not sure which judge I think is worse, Chin who somehow believed that the NFL's evidence was conclusive enough that Goodell's use or misuse of his authority was irrelevant or Parker who didn't give a f.uck about the evidence and just firmly believes that an employer can have absolute say over literally anything involving their employees no matter how flimsy the argument. I guess Chin is more stupid and Parker is more immoral?
 
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