If You read Nothing Else Today, Read This From "Above The Law"

chasa said:

WE will never get or credibility back, but at least we have the knowledge that we will drown in the tears of the haters

Click to expand...

Actually, the haters will drown in their own tears

Both these guys proved they are impartial.

Sign them up to be Arbitrators baby.

Of course this can't happen, they've already shown they think the Patriots are most likely innocent of the charges.

Here's my read on where the situation is now:

Brady won't be suspended. If Goodell is smart, he will throw Vincent and Wells under the bus and reverse the suspension himself. If Goodell is stupid (the likely scenario), Brady will sue and get the suspension thrown out.

The questions I have are:
1) Will Brady sue for defamation?
2) How is Kraft going to get his picks and money back?

Everyone is so focused on the Brady suspension now, but I think the outcome there is pretty certain at this point.

It also amazes me how much of a divergence there is between the realities and legalities of this situation versus the media coverage.

sieglo said:

Here's my read on where the situation is now:

Brady won't be suspended. If Goodell is smart, he will throw Vincent and Wells under the bus and reverse the suspension himself. If Goodell is stupid (the likely scenario), Brady will sue and get the suspension thrown out.

The questions I have are:
1) Will Brady sue for defamation?
2) How is Kraft going to get his picks and money back?

Everyone is so focused on the Brady suspension now, but I think the outcome there is pretty certain at this point.

It also amazes me how much of a divergence there is between the realities and legalities of this situation versus the media coverage.

Click to expand...

When this case winds up in court, the alleged illegal deflation as the evidentiary basis for Brady's suspension will be tossed. This of course also happens to be the basis for the team's fine and loss of draft picks. No crime, no penalty.

As for the defamation suit, such suits are notoriously difficult to win and I don't see it happening. No suspension, no draft picks, and no fine seems attainable, but you will not hear an apology from the NFL.

My favorite was ...

That said, the text messages are circumstantial evidence because there are more than one interpretation of these statements.



Direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion without an intervening inference. Wells in his presser and in the report makes all sorts of inferences about the text messages, and that is a primary reason why he wanted another interview with lockerroom attendant, Jim McNally. To see what he meant by that text.

Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, Wells called the text messages "direct evidence" in his phone conference which really threw me off. Glad to see that at least in legal circles, this sort of thing should be tarnishing that reputation too.

Jlaff said:

My favorite was ...


If I recall correctly, Wells called the text messages "direct evidence" in his phone conference which really threw me off. Glad to see that at least in legal circles, this sort of thing should be tarnishing that reputation too.

Click to expand...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ess-conference-d.1120003/page-25#post-4210506

Click to expand...

Mack Herron said:

When this case winds up in court, the alleged illegal deflation as the evidentiary basis for Brady's suspension will be tossed. This of course also happens to be the basis for the team's fine and loss of draft picks. No crime, no penalty.

As for the defamation suit, such suits are notoriously difficult to win and I don't see it happening. No suspension, no draft picks, and no fine seems attainable, but you will not hear an apology from the NFL.

Click to expand...

If the NFL office knowingly gave the media incorrect psi readings and allowed them to be published for months before setting the record straight, wouldn't that be enough to at least get the defamation case before a jury and not thrown out by motion?

I mean the readings are factual, not a matter of opinion.

A very good conversation. Not surprisingly the Patriots have decided to fight as hard off the field as on the field for what they have earned.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

If the NFL office knowingly gave the media incorrect psi readings and allowed them to be published for months before setting the record straight, wouldn't that be enough to at least get the defamation case before a jury and not thrown out by motion?

I mean the readings are factual, not a matter of opinion.

Click to expand...

I am not a lawyer, so others can provide more accurate replies. For defamation I believe there has to be intent. In other words, it is insufficient that the NFL lied, you would need to prove that they lied deliberately and with the intent to damage Brady. Lawyers opining on this issue all seem to agree that defamation is an especially high hurdle that is rarely achieved. Also, I don't think Brady is going to suffer much financially (his gear has in fact increased in sales) and he would be satisfied with getting the NFL findings and penalty tossed. I don't really think he wants monetary damages or contrition from the NFL. Good discussion here:

As for suing the NFL, even if you are 100% totally not guilty of anything, defamation claims for public figures are hard to win and bring their own unpredicability, privacy invasions, peril and expense.

Click to expand...

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/shou...d-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

A very good read. It's surprising that Ben Volin, who's been down on the Pats position, tweeted a link to this.

raduray said:

A very good read. It's surprising that Ben Volin, who's been down on the Pats position, tweeted a link to this.

Click to expand...

Reason: He didn't understand it.

Honestly, he can't even hold Greg Bedard's pinky ring.

Volin truly is an incompetent. I'm not saying that because he is trolling the Patriots - - hell, Borges or Felger do that and they at least have brains- - Volin is a dim bulb in the class of a Tanguay.

Mack Herron said:

I am not a lawyer, so others can provide more accurate replies. For defamation I believe there has to be intent. In other words, it is insufficient that the NFL lied, you would need to prove that they lied deliberately and with the intent to damage Brady.

Click to expand...

What was their intent in publishing false PSI numbers and then not providing the accurate numbers to the Patriots until March 23, with the stipulation that the Pats could not release the correct numbers.

Think about it. The NFL gave the Patriots and the media a false PSI number (10.1 PSI) and then did not tell them that the numbers were false until AFTER all of the Wells interviews had been completed.

Mack Herron said:

I am not a lawyer, so others can provide more accurate replies. For defamation I believe there has to be intent. In other words, it is insufficient that the NFL lied, you would need to prove that they lied deliberately and with the intent to damage Brady. Lawyers opining on this issue all seem to agree that defamation is an especially high hurdle that is rarely achieved. Also, I don't think Brady is going to suffer much financially (his gear has in fact increased in sales) and he would be satisfied with getting the NFL findings and penalty tossed. I don't really think he wants monetary damages or contrition from the NFL. Good discussion here:

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/shou...d-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

Click to expand...

Well, the NFL party line seems to be "Why would we want to humiliate one of our franchise players"?

Good question, but if you look at Goodell's punishment history, it looks like he bends over backwards to help the Jets and screw the Patriots. It's almost as if he believes he has some religious obligation to crusade against the Patriots. It's sooo over the top and obvious, I think a jury could find a malicious intent on the part of Goodell and some of the other NY friends in the NFL office.

hwc said:

What was their intent in publishing false PSI numbers and then not providing the accurate numbers to the Patriots until March 23, with the stipulation that the Pats could not release the correct numbers.

Think about it. The NFL gave the Patriots and the media a false PSI number (10.1 PSI) and then did not tell them that the numbers were false until AFTER all of the Wells interviews had been completed.

Click to expand...

Don't forget that the NFL gave the media false reports as well, and were happy to not correct them at any time. Could the ensuing sh*t storm count towards defamation of character? I would like to think so...

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/nfl-mike-kensil-deflategate

"
Former New York Jets director of operations Mike Kensil is the “driving force” behind the NFL investigation of the New England Patriots regarding underinflated footballs during the AFC Championship game against the Indianapolis Colts, reports CSNNE.com’s Tom Curran.

Kensil worked for the organization for more than 20 years, left the Jets in 2006 and is now the league’s NFL Vice President of Game Operations. Kensil's reported interest in the Patriots began well before the AFC Championship.

According to the report, the connection between the investigation and the Jets “hints certainly at a preexisting judgment” of the Patriots and head coach Bill Belichick, who denied knowing anything about the deflated footballs during a news conference last week."

The league has ZERO credibility. Goodell came in in 2006..he names THIS guy his right hand man, a position of unchecked power to do anything he wants with impunity.

Kensil has been quoted in numerous print sources AND on electronic media that he despises Bill Belichick...this recorded in 2001. Have ANY of you EVER seen Roger Goodell or Kensil in a photo, shaking hands, working co-operatively or any other normal behavior an unbiased human being would do in a league like the NFL with Bill Belechick?

Goodell comes online in 2006 ..Kensil follows..it's been Gates Of Goodhell ever since. THERE IS NO ARGUING AGAINST THIS!!!!


Kensil worked for the organization for more than 20 years, left the Jets in 2006 and is now the league’s NFL Vice President of Game Operations. Kensi's reported interest in the Patriots began well before the AFC Championship.
Kensil worked for the organization for more than 20 years, left the Jets in 2006 and is now the league’s NFL Vice President of Game Operations. Kensi's reported interest in the Patriots began well before the AFC Championship.
Kensil worked for the organization for more than 20 years, left the Jets in 2006 and is now the league’s NFL Vice President of Game Operations. Kensi's reported interest in the Patriots began well before the AFC Championship.
Kensil worked for the organization for more than 20 years, left the Jets in 2006 and is now the league’s NFL Vice President of Game Operations. Kensi's reported interest in the Patriots began well before the AFC Championship.

Stop looking everywhere else for answers...the ANSWER is staring all of you in the face.

Mack Herron said:

I am not a lawyer, so others can provide more accurate replies. For defamation I believe there has to be intent. In other words, it is insufficient that the NFL lied, you would need to prove that they lied deliberately and with the intent to damage Brady. Lawyers opining on this issue all seem to agree that defamation is an especially high hurdle that is rarely achieved. Also, I don't think Brady is going to suffer much financially (his gear has in fact increased in sales) and he would be satisfied with getting the NFL findings and penalty tossed. I don't really think he wants monetary damages or contrition from the NFL. Good discussion here:

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/05/shou...d-roger-goodell-a-deflategate-email-exchange/

Click to expand...

I'm certainly no lawyer either, but I imagine you'd also have to prove that it was indeed the NFL who leaked the incorrect readings. If all that happened was the wrong numbers were published, I don't think the NFL has any legal obligation to set the record straight on what they could claim was an "unfounded rumor".

Sicilian said:

I'm certainly no lawyer either, but I imagine you'd also have to prove that it was indeed the NFL who leaked the incorrect readings. If all that happened was the wrong numbers were published, I don't think the NFL has any legal obligation to set the record straight on what they could claim was an "unfounded rumor".

Click to expand...

Incorrect readings were in the NFL letter from Gardi to the team, so it was not merely an unsourced leak. The NFL had the correct measurements and published incorrect ones. So they lied. The tricky part is proving that they were not merely incompetent, but also malicious--they had to have known they were lying (goes to state of mind). Unlike Goodell, those silly courts draw a distinction between what we believe and what we can prove.

raduray said:

A very good read. It's surprising that Ben Volin, who's been down on the Pats position, tweeted a link to this.

Click to expand...

Volin's walking things back a little tiny bit, mostly with regards to the science issues.



Edit: Don't get me wrong.... He's on WEEI right now, and still attacking the Patriots side for not being strong enough in their defense.

Mack Herron said:

Incorrect readings were in the NFL letter from Gardi to the team, so it was not merely an unsourced leak. The NFL had the correct measurements and published incorrect ones. So they lied. The tricky part is proving that they were not merely incompetent, but also malicious--they had to have known they were lying (goes to state of mind). Unlike Goodell, those silly courts draw a distinction between what we believe and what we can prove.

Click to expand...

Forgot about the Gardi letter. Thank you for reminding me.

Why do the Colts get a free pass? Their balls were below the PSI levels too and I want to see the texts from Kensil.

Fair is fair