More from PFT " (Holy crap, I think I’m beginning to agree with Don Yee.) "

Deus Irae said:

Also, realize how Wells used Anderson's testimony:

Anderson's memory is irrelevant when it comes to the "K" ball
Anderson's memory is faulty when it comes to the choice of gauges
Anderson's memory is excellent when it comes to remembering the PSI of the Patriots footballs

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But, as you have pointed out, consistency, logic, and reason do not weigh heavily on the man who serves as judge, jury, and executioner. As long as the money rolls in, these deluded pecuniary sycophants believe they are doing a good job.

Mack Herron said:

But, as you have pointed out, consistency, logic, and reason do not weigh heavily to the man who serves as judge, jury, and executioner.

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That's why I've wanted him gone since just about day one. Spygate said it all. This is a guy who's been slapped down by arbitrators, by the courts and by his own predecessor, even after he was given the power to rule over these issues with a lower standard (preponderance). He's a Jacobin, a militant communist, a cross burner, or whatever phrase you prefer to use, and I've been saying this without regard to which team he happened to be dealing with at the time.

Florio is only targeting the PSI measurements becasuse he he himself floated the rumor that only 1 ball was 1PSI below 12.5 and rest were few ticks under.
This wells report is not making any of its conclusions based on the reading unfortunately . They are nailing tom for
1. Failure to cooperate
2. 'Deflator' word used in may.

Florio will still say tom should be suspended by this. All this PSI analysis meaningless in the ruling and florio is just writing stuff to bait clicks from pats fans.

Really surprised, I thought the name Wells carried enough solemness not to come out with such a report. Mades me now wonder about his conclusions in Miami. Very disappointed.

vuudu said:

Really surprised, I thought the name Wells carried enough solemn not to come out with such a report. Mades me now wonder about his conclusions in Miami. Very disappointed.

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His Miami report was also a joke. He basically cost a football player more than a year's salary because of locker room banter.

Deus Irae said:

His Miami report was also a joke. He basically cost a football player more than a year's salary because of locker room banter.

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How come incognito didnt win an appeal ? Or did he not go to court with the ruling ?

SVN said:

Florio is only targeting the PSI measurements becasuse he he himself floated the rumor that only 1 ball was 1PSI below 12.5 and rest were few ticks under.
This wells report is not making any of its conclusions based on the reading unfortunately . They are nailing tom for
1. Failure to cooperate
2. 'Deflator' word used in may.

Florio will still say tom should be suspended by this. All this PSI analysis meaningless in the ruling and florio is just writing stuff to bait clicks from pats fans.

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SVN this has to be one of the rare times I disagree with you (about the report, not Florio) . The report says at one point at least, that the science alone doesn't account for the greater loss in pressure of the Patriot's balls.

Jlaff said:

SVN this has to be one of the rare times I disagree with you (about the report, not Florio) . The report says at one point at least, that the science alone doesn't account for the greater loss in pressure of the Patriot's balls.

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I understand but I think goodell will hand the punishment more for the non cooperation bit because its so abstract. Thats all I meant.

BTW can someone mail florio to write about the 16PSI /13 PSI is the legal rule text exchange ? That part doesnt seem to get enough coverage.

SVN said:

This Wells report is not making any of its conclusions based on the reading unfortunately . They are nailing tom for
1. Failure to cooperate
2. 'Deflator' word used in may.

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The Wells report does make a big deal about two aspects of the pressure data:

1) The set of Colts footballs and the set of Patriots footballs behaved differently, as judged by statistical significance. They even had the Princeton professor verify that there was statistical significance. There was, but only because the Colts footballs were tested last, after partial warming in the heated room.

2) That the variation of pressure readings withing the Patriots footballs was unusually high. But this could happen if, say, 6 Patriots footballs were water-soaked to some degree and 5 were dry and never used. And for the Colts footballs that were tested, how were they picked? Did they happen to grab the dry, unused ones?

They deserve to be hammered for these two points of emphasis, plus the convenient choices of whether to believe the ref's memory or not.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

The Wells report does make a big deal about two aspects of the pressure data:

1) The set of Colts footballs and the set of Patriots footballs behaved differently, as judged by statistical significance. They even had the Princeton professor verify that there was statistical significance. There was, but only because the Colts footballs were tested last, after partial warming in the heated room.

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There's even more to it than that. Because the Colts footballs weren't all measured, and some of the Patriots balls fell within the same range percentage as the Colts footballs that did get measured, the comparison is fatally flawed.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

2) That the variation of pressure readings withing the Patriots footballs was unusually high. But this could happen if, say, 6 Patriots footballs were water-soaked to some degree and 5 were dry and never used. And for the Colts footballs that were tested, how were they picked? Did they happen to grab the dry, unused ones?

They deserve to be hammered for these two points of emphasis, plus the convenient choices of whether to believe the ref's memory or not.

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Also, as I've pointed out elsewhere:

Other than the football used for the kneel down at the end of the half, the Patriots footballs were the footballs being exposed to the weather last. The Patriots had the ball from 4:48 left to 0:13, exposing their footballs to the elements during that time, while the Colts balls should/would have been safely in the bag, as it were.

So you have a situation where the balls that were most recently subjected to the elements were the first balls measured. That would naturally skew the readings.

I don't recall which particular article it was, but someone addressed the elements issue and came up with results that run counter to the report findings.

Deus Irae said:

That's why I've wanted him gone since just about day one. Spygate said it all. This is a guy who's been slapped down by arbitrators, by the courts and by his own predecessor, even after he was given the power to rule over these issues with a lower standard (preponderance). He's a Jacobin, a militant communist, a cross burner, or whatever phrase you prefer to use, and I've been saying this without regard to which team he happened to be dealing with at the time.

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The guy is a hardcore Republican. Now stop the political nonsense.

upstater1 said:

The guy is a hardcore Republican. Now stop the political nonsense.

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Nothing I said was political, and don't tell me what not to post when I post comparisons, just because you happen to see what looks to you like a political component at first reading.

Nobody, outside of New England cares anymore. Brady is guilty, the Patriots are cheaters, suspend Brady, take away draft choices and fine them -- that is how ESPN and mediot haters have portrayed things.

The mediot haters have already ruled and Goodell will follow national sentiment.

It has been a bag job since the scheme was concocted and it played out exactly how patriot hating teams hoped it might.

We're screwed - maybe, if Brady chooses to fight, suspensions will be over turned, but, public sentiment won't.

After years of trying to explain spy gate truth to people that have no clue, this simply compounds the cheatriot notion. I can't imagine more defense from me. I will simply tell them one time, wrong, gets the facts right and you hate us cuz you ain't us. That's all I got left in me.

Not sure there is anything else we, as Patriot fanatics, can do.

Enjoy the four rings and hopefully a couple more and screw 'em all after that.

I am certainly open to some kind of message we can all send....maybe, somebody will figure out a way that we can collectively respond.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

The Wells report does make a big deal about two aspects of the pressure data:

1) The set of Colts footballs and the set of Patriots footballs behaved differently, as judged by statistical significance. They even had the Princeton professor verify that there was statistical significance. There was, but only because the Colts footballs were tested last, after partial warming in the heated room.

2) That the variation of pressure readings withing the Patriots footballs was unusually high. But this could happen if, say, 6 Patriots footballs were water-soaked to some degree and 5 were dry and never used. And for the Colts footballs that were tested, how were they picked? Did they happen to grab the dry, unused ones?

They deserve to be hammered for these two points of emphasis, plus the convenient choices of whether to believe the ref's memory or not.

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I agree they do. My point is that league wont make its judgement based on this job wrt the readings just the stupid report doesnt.Otherwise they wouldve not ended up rulling against brady. They are really after the deflator text messages and brady's cell phone not being provided.. They will use something abstract like patriots not cooperating by providing mcnally and brady not cooperating.

Fencer said:

Even so, earlier parts of the article were useful.

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I agree - just annoys me when things like that are interjected to intentionally spark a reaction.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

2) That the variation of pressure readings withing the Patriots footballs was unusually high. But this could happen if, say, 6 Patriots footballs were water-soaked to some degree and 5 were dry and never used. And for the Colts footballs that were tested, how were they picked? Did they happen to grab the dry, unused ones?

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Very interesting point. It's possible when reaching into the bag they grabbed the 'cleanest' balls, just plain easier to measure, not slipping around when they're in a hurry. It's possible those four never made it out of the bag during the first half. We've seen, through numerous studies, that the rain-soaked balls both expand slightly (more volume = less air pressure) and reach equilibrium slower (because the cold water keeps the leather and the balls themselves cooler).

So taking this theory a step further, let's take the four highest measurements of Pats balls, from the gauge they used in their analysis (the one that measured lower at halftime, because it lined up better with the Colts measurements).
11.85
11.6
11.50
11.15

Average of 11.525, which is actually above the predicted 11.3-11.5 range based on the ideal gas law.

I didn't think the 4-ball sample was that big a deal but this is a fantastic point, and definitely has me questioning yet another aspect of the report. Good call!

fgssand said:

Nobody, outside of New England cares anymore. Brady is guilty, the Patriots are cheaters, suspend Brady, take away draft choices and fine them -- that is how ESPN and mediot haters have portrayed things.

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That is often the case before the defendant has spoken or provided any explanations for the information of the report, the phone record or the emails. The public generally presumes guilt. Brady's future statements and actions may change their minds, or not.

Petition to ban Goodell from Foxboro.

Hoodie said:

Yee says he has transcripts from Brady's interview. I hope they make them public ...

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The fact that Brady's interview information has been omitted from the Report tells me that the information provided by Brady does not fit the narrative that the GoodWells Report wants to portray. Watch this space after any punishment has been meted out.

I would not be surprised if Wells and Goodell are letting the public opinion form knowing themselves full well that the Report itself leaves the door open for appeal etc. More probably than not the wording has been carefully crafted to leave things open-ended and subject to interpretation.

As to the scientific stuff, the Report itself says:

Our scientific consultants informed us that the data alone did not provide a basis
for them to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering, as the
analysis of such data is ultimately dependent upon assumptions and information that is uncertain.

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Are there any group of sports fans in the WORLD that are more bitter and petty (as a group) than NFL fans?

The level of vitriol the Patriots (and their fans) receive is utterly unreal - Goodell realises there is a huge market for the Patriots to get their 'comeuppance' and he is simply playing to that.

Brady WILL be suspended on Monday - for me there is no question - Goodell runs the NFL (without undoubted permission from the owners) as a tyranny - no answers will be given for this judgement - look at the derisible level of evidence offered so far for proof of that.

Perhaps Brady can get this over-turned in court - I hope so.

One thing i'll never forget is that Bob Kraft has repeatedly backed Goodell - Kraft is so greedy he is willing to see his QB, team and fanbase torn to pieces to make a few more dollars more.