An Athletic Comparison: Cann v Marpet v Bitonio

I must admit, I did not realise just how comparable athletically AJ Cann was to both Ali Marpet and Joel Bitonio:



Source is Zach Whitman's outstanding spare analysis. If you want the ultimate drafting nerdgasm, check out his spreadsheet of athletic and physical measurable for over 2000 prospects

http://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/

That really surprised me.

"With the 32nd pick" perhaps?

I think Cann makes a ton of sense for the Patriots. He has a decent balance of size, strength and athleticism to be able to play in a variety of blocking schemes. He's a smart player and multi-year captain. Most of all, he's ready to step in and start in the NFL.

The main knock on him has been his lack of positional versatility -- he's a pure LG. But it so happens that the Patriots need a LG, and the more versatile prospects like Erving and Collins are likely to be gone. IMO the rumor that had the Pats trading down a bit from 32 and taking Cann was pretty plausible.

patchick said:

I think Cann makes a ton of sense for the Patriots. He has a decent balance of size, strength and athleticism to be able to play in a variety of blocking schemes. He's a smart player and multi-year captain. Most of all, he's ready to step in and start in the NFL.

The main knock on him has been his lack of positional versatility -- he's a pure LG. But it so happens that the Patriots need a LG, and the more versatile prospects like Erving and Collins are likely to be gone. IMO the rumor that had the Pats trading down a bit from 32 and taking Cann was pretty plausible.

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It's certainly starting to look as though the first round CBs will go too high - I'm now seeing rumours that a number of teams have Kevin Johnson as their #1 CB - and if that's the case, they should prioritise the LG hole. I still like Erving, Fisher and Clemmings but Cann makes a lot of sense as a safe bet. I'd personally like more upside from a first round pick, but 'safe' can be good too.

manxman2601 said:

It's certainly starting to look as though the first round CBs will go too high - I'm now seeing rumours that a number of teams have Kevin Johnson as their #1 CB - and if that's the case, they should prioritise the LG hole. I still like Erving, Fisher and Clemmings but Cann makes a lot of sense as a safe bet. I'd personally like more upside from a first round pick, but 'safe' can be good too.

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A guy who you plug into LG for 10 years at pick #32 makes as much sense now as Logan Mankins did when he was drafted.

Granted Mankins DID have versatility going for him.

manxman2601 said:

It's certainly starting to look as though the first round CBs will go too high

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Yep, you might notice that my contest ballot had no CBs, much to my regret. So many of the top prospects have huge character question marks that the "clean" guys are likely to be overdrafted.

manxman2601 said:

It's certainly starting to look as though the first round CBs will go too high - I'm now seeing rumours that a number of teams have Kevin Johnson as their #1 CB - and if that's the case, they should prioritise the LG hole. I still like Erving, Fisher and Clemmings but Cann makes a lot of sense as a safe bet. I'd personally like more upside from a first round pick, but 'safe' can be good too.

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Manx you loved Cooper 2 years ago and wanted to pick him, fair so say he hasnt lived up to it so fare, but still surpriced you didnt like AJ more really. Think they are very simulary in style.

Luxusdk said:

Manx you loved Cooper 2 years ago and wanted to pick him, fair so say he hasnt lived up to it so fare, but still surpriced you didnt like AJ more really. Think they are very simulary in style.

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I feel that Cooper had much quicker feet than Cann does. He didn't time as well as these guys but he played more athletically. Shaq Mason is the prospect most like Cooper.

As for him not performing well. Let's see. He broke his leg in year one - it's far too early to judge Cooper.

manxman2601 said:

It's certainly starting to look as though the first round CBs will go too high - I'm now seeing rumours that a number of teams have Kevin Johnson as their #1 CB - and if that's the case, they should prioritise the LG hole. I still like Erving, Fisher and Clemmings but Cann makes a lot of sense as a safe bet. I'd personally like more upside from a first round pick, but 'safe' can be good too.

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And Tomlinson makes five as a safe pick to start at LG. For example, Jeremiah has us drafting Tomlinson at 32.

I agree that the top corners may be out of reach.

Some have added Tomlinson to your list of OL's that we should consider at 32, or with a small trade down.
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An even great concern to me is that there is large gap in talent between this group of 5 OL's available at 32 and those that come later. Of course, that is also true of corners, but it seems unlikely that one of the top five will be available.

We might be picking between the last of the corners and one of the top LG's.

mgteich said:

And Tomlinson makes five as a safe pick to start at LG. For example, Jeremiah has us drafting Tomlinson at 32.

I agree that the top corners may be out of reach.

Some have added Tomlinson to your list of OL's that we should consider at 32, or with a small trade down.
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An even great concern to me is that there is large gap in talent between this group of 5 OL's available at 32 and those that come later. Of course, that is also true of corners, but it seems unlikely that one of the top five will be available.

We might be picking between the last of the corners and one of the top LG's.

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Tomlinson is a very real possibility, it's just I give a slight edge to Cann because of his athleticism. It's as Hatcheck noted previously. We have NOTHING at LG right now - it is an absolute priority to get a starter and if that's going to come through the draft then the number of probable day one starters is limited, probably not that much beyond Erving, Cann and Tomlinson. It would take some outstanding scouting and coaching to find a day one starter in the later group.

manxman2601 said:

It's certainly starting to look as though the first round CBs will go too high - I'm now seeing rumours that a number of teams have Kevin Johnson as their #1 CB - and if that's the case, they should prioritise the LG hole. I still like Erving, Fisher and Clemmings but Cann makes a lot of sense as a safe bet. I'd personally like more upside from a first round pick, but 'safe' can be good too.

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I see a good LG prospect locked for 4 or 5 years as a good investment for a 1st round pick, considering the need factor, it adds even more. If BB were to draft for the future then I could see a LT with more versatility but since he didn't resign Connolly, I think he's looking for a guy who can start right away.

This pick makes a lot of sense for me.

I think we're overstating the need this team has at LG. It's a want. The Pats have 7 tested offensive linemen. Not all are spectacular and the pipeline behind them is nothing to be excited about but the bodies are there to put together something competent on opening day.

Solder - Wendell - Stork - Fleming - Vollmer with Cannon, Kline as gameday reserves is not WE NEED A 1ST ROUND GUARD NOW territory. And yes, Wendell has played LG before. Started three games there in 2010 and 2011. As the former center and primary IOL reserve he can be counted on to be ambidextrous at the guard spots.

I think the Pats have the flexibility to take a next-year guy without the double dip. I would of course greatly prefer they take an NFL-ready OG, its one of the few spots where a rookie the Pats could draft would make an instant impact, but I don't think it's a "need" due to a "hole" at LG.

I would expect the "double dip" to be OT and OG, because the Pats have to further insure themselves against Solder leaving. Would not surprise me at all to see them take an early OT and a later "OG."

unoriginal said:

I think we're overstating the need this team has at LG. It's a want. The Pats have 7 tested offensive linemen. Not all are spectacular and the pipeline behind them is nothing to be excited about but the bodies are there to put together something competent on opening day.

Solder - Wendell - Stork - Fleming - Vollmer with Cannon, Kline as gameday reserves is not WE NEED A 1ST ROUND GUARD NOW territory. And yes, Wendell has played LG before. Started three games there in 2010 and 2011. As the former center and primary IOL reserve he can be counted on to be ambidextrous at the guard spots.

I think the Pats have the flexibility to take a next-year guy without the double dip. I would of course greatly prefer they take an NFL-ready OG, its one of the few spots where a rookie the Pats could draft would make an instant impact, but I don't think it's a "need" due to a "hole" at LG.

I would expect the "double dip" to be OT and OG, because the Pats have to further insure themselves against Solder leaving. Would not surprise me at all to see them take an early OT and a later "OG."

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I think the fact that Dante has been brought out of retirement to scour the country for an OG suggests it's more than a want.

I'd rather have Jake Fisher or TJ Clemmings at 32 if available.

Cann might have played only LG in college, but I have doubts that he can play LG here.

Why is cann lg only? How hard is it to play rg if you're a lg?

Not sure cann is mobile enough.

Erving would be good he's mobile and could play lt if solder leaves. He's about to get expensive.

kennyb said:

Why is cann lg only? How hard is it to play rg if you're a lg?

Not sure cann is mobile enough.

Erving would be good he's mobile and could play lt if solder leaves. He's about to get expensive.

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1. He probably can play RG but I don't know if he can play tackle or center. He's also better suited to LG with his athleticism.

kennyb said:

Erving would be good he's mobile and could play lt if solder leaves. He's about to get expensive.

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Just because he had the versatility to play LT on college level it doesn't mean that he will be able to replace Solder. I think Erving would be a nice swiss army knife of OL positions, but I would not want him to be my starter at tackle. He'd most probably end up playing guard and emergency swing tackle.

Positional versatility is nice but logically comes hand in hand with less time to specialize into a specific position. I feel very comfortable with Cann + Cannon instead of only Erving. Your milage might vary of course and it obviously also comes with the opportunity cost of an roster spot.

unoriginal said:

I think we're overstating the need this team has at LG. It's a want. The Pats have 7 tested offensive linemen. Not all are spectacular and the pipeline behind them is nothing to be excited about but the bodies are there to put together something competent on opening day.

Solder - Wendell - Stork - Fleming - Vollmer with Cannon, Kline as gameday reserves is not WE NEED A 1ST ROUND GUARD NOW territory. And yes, Wendell has played LG before. Started three games there in 2010 and 2011. As the former center and primary IOL reserve he can be counted on to be ambidextrous at the guard spots.

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But then next year we are here talking about the same issue again. I think it's necessary to add stability to the interior of the line. Last season was a transition year with Mankins trade on the verge of week 1 and Bill had Connolly to roll the dice, this year we currently have Josh Kline, not even Connolly. Wendell is a good soldier but he doesn't solve the problem. Maybe not a 1st round pick but we need a player to settle the position for the next years, we have Stork on the cheap for 3 more years. Maybe Bill plans to strength the interior and then in the next draft address the tackles.

If we had Connolly for one more year I could see them addressing the position with a day 3 pick.This year it's got to be day 1 or 2 tops. I don't wanna see that mess on the OL again. Enough with the Deveys of life.

manxman2601 said:

I think the fact that Dante has been brought out of retirement to scour the country for an OG suggests it's more than a want.

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Honestly maybe he doesn't want to stay home all year? Maybe he just wants to do this part time. We won't know if this is strange or not till next year and we can see if he does it again.

varjao said:

But then next year we are here talking about the same issue again. I think it's necessary to add stability to the interior of the line. Last season was a transition year with Mankins trade on the verge of week 1 and Bill had Connolly to roll the dice, this year we currently have Josh Kline, not even Connolly. Wendell is a good soldier but he doesn't solve the problem. Maybe not a 1st round pick but we need a player to settle the position for the next years, we have Stork on the cheap for 3 more years. Maybe Bill plans to strength the interior and then in the next draft address the tackles.

If we had Connolly for one more year I could see them addressing the position with a day 3 pick.This year it's got to be day 1 or 2 tops. I don't wanna see that mess on the OL again. Enough with the Deveys of life.

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Stork was a Day 3 pick, and he was a solution right off the bat. I'm not suggesting the Pats shouldn't solve the problem, I am suggesting it could be done while devoting resources elsewhere if that's where the draft value is at. Obviously you can't pencil in 4th round impact players in every draft, but I think the Pats have the flexibility and acumen to identify an IOL player late Day 2 or early Day 3 that could be counted on his second year.

Personally I am more comfortable with Wendell starting next year than Fleming moving to guard. BUT Fleming has all the physical attributes they seem to be looking for now, was a 4th round pick, and has a year of the heir-apparent 3rd-TE role under his belt. The Pats started Devey last year on much less going for him, and unless they go 1st round they probably won't find anyone else more ready for this year than Fleming.

The Pats have five players they could start today. We talk about how we need big blockers like Fleming for a better run game, but Wendell consistently gets the bona fides as the Pats best run blocker. He's not terrible, or on his last legs.

Mankins was a double duty pick. He could start at LG; and be the prime reserve as a starter-in-waiting at LOT while also not being wasted sitting on the bench. That made him worth a double value and hence worth a 1st round pick.

Cann would be a starter at LG, but could probably never play LOT.