Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again

FirstAndGoal said:

Because you're not asking for proof. You're asking for definitive proof. They only need to satisfy their owners. They can do what they want. You're the one making statements about what they have to prove. If they owners were okay with it, they could declare the Patriots out of the Super Bowl at any point for any reason they feel is okay. Now, in reality they can't, but saying they have to meet some legal requirement is nonsense.

and before anyone says I'm saying they're going to kick the Pats out of the SUper BOwl, I'm not... I'm just making a point about their ability to do what they want.

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supafly said:

It's all over the news. The refs claim they weighed the balls and they were fine prior to the game.

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Need more information on the pregame process. One of the key unanswered questions is the process that referee Walt Anderson and his staff underwent when inspecting the footballs before the AFC Championship Game. Did they weigh each ball? Just feel them? If they went through a thorough weight check of each football, and then conducted the same weight check during the game/after the game to find the footballs now had less than 2 pounds per square inch than what they initially did, that would be significant.

Difference between supplying underinflated footballs and altering them; officials' role in the process. The reason that more information on the pregame process is critical is that it would help clarify if the Patriots simply supplied underinflated footballs or if the footballs were manipulated in some form after they were inspected. From this viewpoint, the Patriots would still be held accountable for supplying underinflated footballs, but it would yield a lesser penalty when compared to potentially altering the footballs after they were inspected. The reason is that while teams should be supplying footballs that meet specifications, there is also a responsibility on the part of the officials to regulate that. That's why they have the pregame check in the first place. Officials also touch the football on every play, so they are a big part of this story, too.

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tombonneau said:

Where did you


Really? I haven't seen that yet, I'd think it would be huge news. If that is the case, the Pats are ****ed big time, case closed.

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karguy85 said:

It was at directed at point 2 and your assertion that we needed a log of the refs testing the balls prior to the game. I find it hard to believe that the refs are alone with the balls and pressure gauges during this. If they say that they were tested prior to the game and the balls were in compliance, I'd tend to believe it (until I hear otherwise). The question then becomes, what happened between the testing and halftime that caused the balls to lose pressure (i.e. ballboy deflating balls, faulty original testing gauge, weather conditions, etc.). Trying to be a realist here.

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FrodoBagginz said:

I have heard that the league has the Colts balls and the Colts balls were properly inflated. If weather had an effect on the balls, then why were the Colts balls just fine (if this report is true)?

I just can't wait for the report to be released.

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Onedaful said:

First off, I don't know what you mean by the difference between proof and what definitive proof is. They can do what they want, yes. But you are telling me if they charged Belichick with something or the Patriots origination without proof there would not be a backlash? Even the rabid, idiotic media members know that it will be proven before an action is taken.

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nowayback said:

Maybe they started off at 13.5 and they didn't really have to use them. Maybe they were next to a heater. I trust the colts as much as they trust the Pats

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"I don't think you would notice it as much if it were 10 or 11 pounds. I think it would have to be around nine pounds for it to be noticed,” said Dennis Donovan, an official who serves on the MIAA Football Committee. “I think if refs are just throwing the ball back and forth, it probably would not get detected. Unless you really squeeze the ball in the panels, you're probably not going to notice it right away.”

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rlcarr said:

Since the Colts went into this game knowing they were going to spring this, they probably inflated their balls to 13.5 PSI with cold air to make sure they'd be in the legal range if the balls were tested during the game.

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fnordcircle said:

Unless the investigation turns up either footage or an admission of wrongdoing by the Pats I don't see how they'll be '****ed big time'. Granted, this isn't a court of law we're talking about here but this is nowhere near as cut and dried as Spygate where the Pats were clearly breaking a rule on camera placement.

Unlike others the longer this drags out the more I think it bodes well for the Pats because it means the investigation hasn't found anything that would sate a media and public howling for answers and blood.

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FirstAndGoal said:

Okay, I'm going to eat dinner. You're just lashing out and trying to vent your frustration. I'll bow to your obvious superior knowledge and agree, yes, I don't know the difference between proof and definitive proof. You caught me. You've been 100% correct... happy now or do you need to vent some more? You're a little too attached so I'm going to go spend time with my family. Send your demands for proof to the NFL, I'm tired. See, I told you that you would declare yourself the winner but I just did it for you.

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supafly said:

It's all over the news. The refs claim they weighed the balls and they were fine prior to the game.

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supafly said:

They initially suspected a problem back in November, during the regular season game. Mike Adams picked off two Brady passes and gave them to the equipment mngr, who thought they were definitely light.

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strngplyr said:

What is disappointing?

If you're referring to New England being "caught cheating", then you should be very pleased to know that that hasn't actually happened! I hope I just made your night better!

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PatsFan98117 said:

I've been a lurker here for a long time but never had any need to comment because you all cover it far more adequately than I do. This brouhaha has me wanting to weigh in and I apologize for being insufficiently erudite compared to the football minds that populate this forum.

I assume the Rulebook on NFL.com is complete and this feedback is based on that.

The rules say that a football has to be 'inflated'. No mention is made as to what it has to be inflated with or what the temperature of the gas used to inflate the ball has to be. I am no chemist or physicist but it seems to me that various gases at various temperatures could be used to inflate the ball in order to allow the ball to pass inspection 135 minutes prior to game time but to slowly lose pressure as the gas cooled and/or the outside temperature dropped. The addition of water vapor to a heated gas could also allow for a ball to pass inspection but over the intervening 135 minutes the water vapor would condense as the gas cooled, thus lowering the PSI. Similarly, I do not know what the permeability of urethane (the bladder material) is but might it not be possible that some of the smaller gases like hydrogen or helium would slowly seep through the urethane lining, especially if heated gas is used which would expand the urethane and presumably the porosity of the bladder as a result of expansion due to heating? Again, no scientist here, just using what I recall from basic sciences.

If the Patriots (or TB acting on his own) had a roll in Deflate-Gate or Ballghazi or whatever nonsense name one wishes to assign to this story, I would fully expect them to have a reference matrix of temperatures, barometers and weather conditions in order to get the ball to their desired PSI by game time. It's on the refs to detect any problems with the pressure of the ball after they pass initial inspection because the balls are out of the team's hands by then. Any suggestion that the Pats would leave this in the hands of a ball attendant on the sideline is preposterous.

Like the exchange from De Niro to Pacino in the movie Heat: "I do what I do best, I take scores. You do what you do best, try to stop guys like me."

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fnordcircle said:

Unless the investigation turns up either footage or an admission of wrongdoing by the Pats I don't see how they'll be '****ed big time'. Granted, this isn't a court of law we're talking about here but this is nowhere near as cut and dried as Spygate where the Pats were clearly breaking a rule on camera placement.

Unlike others the longer this drags out the more I think it bodes well for the Pats because it means the investigation hasn't found anything that would sate a media and public howling for answers and blood.

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