Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

Brady_to_Moss said:

Houston should be smart enough to see that as a bad trade. But who knows.

I am done holding out hope they will give Brady 1 more great WR to end his career. Would love another..but don't see it happening

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I think the salary cap implications obviously come into these kinds of fantasy trade talks more than the average person thinks, just as well. As many have pointed out, Johnson has a dead cap hit that is expensive this year, and Mallett's compensation is a huge grey area as well.

If the right guy came along, I think Belichick may pull the trigger in the last year or two of Brady's career, but it'd have to be the perfect setup, so the odds of that happened are probably pretty low.

supafly said:

If the right guy came along, I think Belichick may pull the trigger in the last year or two of Brady's career, but it'd have to be the perfect setup, so the odds of that happened are probably pretty low.

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Just look at Revis. People still say "the pats won't pay" ect. Yet they are paying him $12 mill this year. If they view the player as being top dog (WR,CB ect)..they will pay.

How about Kenny the Faller Thompkins, Mallett, Wilfork & Wendy for AJ?

captain stone said:

How about Kenny the Faller Thompkins, Mallett, Wilfork & Wendy for AJ?

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Throw in Dropson too.

Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith 23m
Andre Johnson won't attend minicamp; no movement in stalemate with #Texans http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2014/06/andre-johnson-wont-attend-minicamp-no-movement-with-texans/… #NFL

**** is getting serious over there, a player like Andre Johnson would not throw the **** in the fan and not backing up his talk...to be continued

According to PFT, he has already lost a million dollar bonus by not reporting to off-season conditioning. So he must be committed to holding out for a trade. It would make too much sense to bring him to NE, but again, the cap hits on both sides would be large.

FreeTedWilliams said:

According to PFT, he has already lost a million dollar bonus by not reporting to off-season conditioning. So he must be committed to holding out for a trade. It would make too much sense to bring him to NE, but again, the cap hits on both sides would be large.

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Yup. Andre isn't playing around.

@ProFootballTalk: Andre Johnson is committed to his position, but retirement could be very costly http://t.co/mV0rbZB5zZ

Comeon Houston, let him free (I will lose it if they cut him and he becomes a free agent).

It's not Tuesday yet, but Ive been waiting to see what Johnson does about mandatory activities before getting "excited".

When the initial Draft/trade rumors first surfaced my brain pulled a number out of my butt and came up with a 15% chance of there being a trade.

But whatever the accurate percentages really are.. Ive been prepared to double that number if Andre is serious enough about holding out in mandatory camps.

And on top of all that losing a million dollar bonus screams serious in my book.

FreeTedWilliams said:

It would make too much sense to bring him to NE, but again, the cap hits on both sides would be large.

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I thought someone (Miguel, maybe?) posted a way that if could maybe work out cap wise.

JMC00 said:

I thought someone (Miguel, maybe?) posted a way that if could maybe work out cap wise.

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There was an article on overthecap.com that explained the Texans would save money, the dead money hit would be less thant he current cap it, but they would obviously lose the player with little benefit - they'd incur almost the same hit but not have Johnson.

Found the article (the pre June 1 numbers are irrelevand now) :

Thoughts on Andre Johnson and the Lessons to be Learned from his Contract - Over the Cap

Johnson carries a salary cap charge in 2014 of $15,644,583 and a cash contract value of $11 million. If traded before June 1, Johnson’s cap charge for the Texans would be $11,964,166 representing a savings of $3,680,417 against the cap. If traded after June 1 the Texans would take a $4.644 million cap charge in 2014 and a $7.319 million charge in 2015. In either scenario the trade would help rather than hurt the Texans salary cap.

What other contenders are out there really with the need and cap space to trade for Johnson other than NE?

Marqui said:

What other contenders are out there really with the need and cap space to trade for Johnson other than NE?

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I doubt he'd want to play there but Johnson has played in the Shanahan offense before and the Browns desperately need a good WR with Gordon likely to be suspended.

BelichickFan said:

I doubt he'd want to play there but Johnson has played in the Shanahan offense before and the Browns desperately need a good WR with Gordon likely to be suspended.

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I don't think the type of offense is even relevant to him or else he would just stay in Huston, he wants to go to a contender. And I'm not sure a rebuilding team like the Browns are desperate to give up assets for a 32 year old receiver.

Marqui said:

What other contenders are out there really with the need and cap space to trade for Johnson other than NE?

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According to our friends at Over the Cap, here is a ranking of current cap space available. Teams in bold are ones that may subjectively be considered to be contenders.

$28,658,569 --- Jaguars .... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$25,586,835 --- Browns .... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$23,785,890 --- Bengals .... contender; QB is Andy Dalton
$22,517,219 --- Jets ........ not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$19,545,426 --- Titans ..... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$19,428,064 --- Eagles ..... contender; QB is Nick Foles
$16,012,090 --- Dolphins ... probably not a contender; Tannehill is QB
$13,933,708 --- Colts ...... contender; don't usually pay big bucks for free agents
$13,646,452 --- Packers ... contender; don't usually pay big bucks for free agents
$10,446,845 --- Bucs ...... probably not a contender; Josh McCown is QB
$10,346,575 --- Chiefs ... contender; Alex Smith is QB
$10,269,924 --- Cowboys .. probably not a contender
$9,505,972 ---- Seahawks ... contender; QB is Russell Wilson
$9,266,023 ---- Raiders ... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$9,081,024 ---- Falcons ... may not be a contender; QB is Matt Ryan
$8,706,194 ---- Texans ... n/a
$8,486,757 ---- Cardinals .. probably not a contender in NFC West
$7,789,293 ---- Bills ....... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$7,720,258 ---- Vikings ... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$7,490,244 ---- Patriots .. contender, but cap space could be issue
$6,894,422 ---- Giants .... may not be a contender; cap space
$6,801,380 ---- Steelers ... may be a contender; cap space; not big FA players
$6,113,727 ---- 49ers ..... contender, but cap space could be issue
$6,052,576 ---- Panthers .. contender, but cap space could be issue
$5,572,960 ---- Bears ..... contender, but cap space could be issue
$4,741,606 ---- Ravens ... may be a contender; cap space could be major issue
$4,616,320 ---- Broncos ... contender; cap space could be major issue
$2,527,934 ---- Chargers ... cap space is a huge issue, eliminating them
$2,472,256 ---- Redskins ... cap space is a huge issue
$1,870,864 ---- Rams ...... not a contender; cap space is a huge issue
$1,588,821 ---- Saints ..... cap space is a huge issue
$406,300 ------ Lions ...... cap space is a huge issue



With that in mind, let's narrow the field:

$23,785,890 --- Bengals
$19,428,064 --- Eagles
$13,933,708 --- Colts
$13,646,452 --- Packers
$9,505,972 ---- Seahawks
$7,490,244 ---- Patriots
$6,801,380 ---- Steelers
$6,113,727 ---- 49ers
$6,052,576 ---- Panthers
$5,572,960 ---- Bears
$4,741,606 ---- Ravens
$4,616,320 ---- Broncos

I'm guessing that the Broncos, Ravens, Bears, Panthers and 49ers are out of the running due to their cap position. While it is true that DeSean Jackson's cap hit is only $4,250,000 this year, that is possible in large part due to his age. He's only 27, and his cap number jumps up to $9,250,000 next year. It becomes more problematic to back load a contract with signing bonuses over four years for a receiver who is 32 years old.

Next, I would eliminate the Colts, Packers and Steelers because historically they have been teams that will rarely pay big money for a veteran free agent.



That leaves the following clubs:

$23,785,890 --- Bengals
$19,428,064 --- Eagles
$9,505,972 ---- Seahawks
$7,490,244 ---- Patriots


Cincinnati has the most cap space, and Johnson would be a huge upgrade over Marvin Jones and Mohamed Sanu opposite AJ Green. Although the Bengals have made the playoffs three straight years, they haven't won in the post-season since 1990. To get an idea of how long that has been, their playoff opponents that year were the Houston Oilers and the Los Angeles Raiders. On top of that, Johnson's beef is uncertainty at quarterback; Dalton is not an elite quarterback, and he may not be back next year, which could put Johnson right back in the same situation.

The Eagles have the cap space to maneuver, but do they want to spend it on an unhappy wide receiver after they just dumped DeSean Jackson? On the other hand an offense that had Johnson, Jeremy Maclin and Riely Cooper at wide receiver, with Brent Celek at tight end and LeSean McCoy and Nick Sproles in the backfield would be a dream come true for an offensive player.

Seattle has enough cap space to make it happen, but their DNA is defense first and foremost. Johnson would give the Seahawks some insurance at the position if Percy Harvin were to miss time again, and if all are healthy then those two plus Doug Baldwin would open things up for what they really want to do - hand off to Marshawn Lynch.

The Patriots may have made it to the final round, but they would have to be considered a longshot within this group. The Pats may have the best quarterback and best offense of these four teams, but they also have the least amount of cap space. The team has had mixed results in terms of signing a veteran wide receiver: for every player like Randy Moss or Wes Welker that worked out, there is a Chad Johnson, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Doug Gabriel, Dedric Ward, Andre' Davis, etc. I'm not convinced that Bill Belichick would be willing to give Johnson a big contract and risk a relatively large amount of money and cap space on an older player that may or may not fit in with the team's style of offense. Even though Johnson has still been extremely productive (109 receptions for 1,407 yards last year), receivers tend to hit the wall very quickly right about his age.

jmt57 said:

According to our friends at Over the Cap, here is a ranking of current cap space available. Teams in bold are ones that may subjectively be considered to be contenders.

$28,658,569 --- Jaguars .... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$25,586,835 --- Browns .... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$23,785,890 --- Bengals .... contender; QB is Andy Dalton
$22,517,219 --- Jets ........ not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$19,545,426 --- Titans ..... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$19,428,064 --- Eagles ..... contender; QB is Nick Foles
$16,012,090 --- Dolphins ... probably not a contender; Tannehill is QB
$13,933,708 --- Colts ...... contender; don't usually pay big bucks for free agents
$13,646,452 --- Packers ... contender; don't usually pay big bucks for free agents
$10,446,845 --- Bucs ...... probably not a contender; Josh McCown is QB
$10,346,575 --- Chiefs ... contender; Alex Smith is QB
$10,269,924 --- Cowboys .. probably not a contender
$9,505,972 ---- Seahawks ... contender; QB is Russell Wilson
$9,266,023 ---- Raiders ... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$9,081,024 ---- Falcons ... may not be a contender; QB is Matt Ryan
$8,706,194 ---- Texans ... n/a
$8,486,757 ---- Cardinals .. probably not a contender in NFC West
$7,789,293 ---- Bills ....... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$7,720,258 ---- Vikings ... not a contender, no proven top tier QB
$7,490,244 ---- Patriots .. contender, but cap space could be issue
$6,894,422 ---- Giants .... may not be a contender; cap space
$6,801,380 ---- Steelers ... may be a contender; cap space; not big FA players
$6,113,727 ---- 49ers ..... contender, but cap space could be issue
$6,052,576 ---- Panthers .. contender, but cap space could be issue
$5,572,960 ---- Bears ..... contender, but cap space could be issue
$4,741,606 ---- Ravens ... may be a contender; cap space could be major issue
$4,616,320 ---- Broncos ... contender; cap space could be major issue
$2,527,934 ---- Chargers ... cap space is a huge issue, eliminating them
$2,472,256 ---- Redskins ... cap space is a huge issue
$1,870,864 ---- Rams ...... not a contender; cap space is a huge issue
$1,588,821 ---- Saints ..... cap space is a huge issue
$406,300 ------ Lions ...... cap space is a huge issue



With that in mind, let's narrow the field:

$23,785,890 --- Bengals
$19,428,064 --- Eagles
$13,933,708 --- Colts
$13,646,452 --- Packers
$9,505,972 ---- Seahawks
$7,490,244 ---- Patriots
$6,801,380 ---- Steelers
$6,113,727 ---- 49ers
$6,052,576 ---- Panthers
$5,572,960 ---- Bears
$4,741,606 ---- Ravens
$4,616,320 ---- Broncos

I'm guessing that the Broncos, Ravens, Bears, Panthers and 49ers are out of the running due to their cap position. While it is true that DeSean Jackson's cap hit is only $4,250,000 this year, that is possible in large part due to his age. He's only 27, and his cap number jumps up to $9,250,000 next year. It becomes more problematic to back load a contract with signing bonuses over four years for a receiver who is 32 years old.

Next, I would eliminate the Colts, Packers and Steelers because historically they have been teams that will rarely pay big money for a veteran free agent.



That leaves the following clubs:

$23,785,890 --- Bengals
$19,428,064 --- Eagles
$9,505,972 ---- Seahawks
$7,490,244 ---- Patriots


Cincinnati has the most cap space, and Johnson would be a huge upgrade over Marvin Jones and Mohamed Sanu opposite AJ Green. Although the Bengals have made the playoffs three straight years, they haven't won in the post-season since 1990. To get an idea of how long that has been, their playoff opponents that year were the Houston Oilers and the Los Angeles Raiders. On top of that, Johnson's beef is uncertainty at quarterback; Dalton is not an elite quarterback, and he may not be back next year, which could put Johnson right back in the same situation.

The Eagles have the cap space to maneuver, but do they want to spend it on an unhappy wide receiver after they just dumped DeSean Jackson? On the other hand an offense that had Johnson, Jeremy Maclin and Riely Cooper at wide receiver, with Brent Celek at tight end and LeSean McCoy and Nick Sproles in the backfield would be a dream come true for an offensive player.

Seattle has enough cap space to make it happen, but their DNA is defense first and foremost. Johnson would give the Seahawks some insurance at the position if Percy Harvin were to miss time again, and if all are healthy then those two plus Doug Baldwin would open things up for what they really want to do - hand off to Marshawn Lynch.

The Patriots may have made it to the final round, but they would have to be considered a longshot within this group. The Pats may have the best quarterback and best offense of these four teams, but they also have the least amount of cap space. The team has had mixed results in terms of signing a veteran wide receiver: for every player like Randy Moss or Wes Welker that worked out, there is a Chad Johnson, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Doug Gabriel, Dedric Ward, Andre' Davis, etc. I'm not convinced that Bill Belichick would be willing to give Johnson a big contract and risk a relatively large amount of money and cap space on an older player that may or may not fit in with the team's style of offense. Even though Johnson has still been extremely productive (109 receptions for 1,407 yards last year), receivers tend to hit the wall very quickly right about his age.

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@Gil_Brandt: Why is Andre Johnson holding out? Wants to play for team w shot to go deep in playoffs, turns 33 in July. Has caught 200+ passes last 2 yrs

It seems as though if Johnson was ever released he would come here in a heartbeat. He really wants to win and he fits like a glove here (steps in immediately as a WR1 with one of the big 4 veteran QBs). It seems like money isn't his top priority.

Trade wise, all it would take would be to include Amendola in a trade as a salary dump and cutting Connolly if BB has faith in Kline/Halapio, etc.

It's up to the Texans. Will they let their best player in franchise history free and compete for a title for once?

I think he is looking for more then just a playoff team; he wants a QB that will throw his way 50% of the time like Matt Schaub did. He had 181 targets last year, that's 30 more targets than Calvin Johnson got on a team with less weapons than Houston. No one will throw the ball to a 33 year old WR that many times. Gronk has over 80% comp percentage for his career, do you think Brady will throw to a guy almost 200 times if he is only catching just over 50%?

I am a fan of the guy, but the Pats don't have the CAP space, and he would be a lot more happy playing for Oakland were Schaub can get him in to the HOF.

@HoustonTexans: "He's a guy that earned the job." O'Brien names Ryan Fitzpatrick starting QB.

patsinthesnow said:

@HoustonTexans: "He's a guy that earned the job." O'Brien names Ryan Fitzpatrick starting QB.

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Interesting that a guy like Fitzpatrick can earn the job in minicamp. To me this translates as: "He's the only one right now who has ANY clue what he's doing so far."

patsfan-1982 said:

I think he is looking for more then just a playoff team; he wants a QB that will throw his way 50% of the time like Matt Schaub did. He had 181 targets last year, that's 30 more targets than Calvin Johnson got on a team with less weapons than Houston. No one will throw the ball to a 33 year old WR that many times. Gronk has over 80% comp percentage for his career, do you think Brady will throw to a guy almost 200 times if he is only catching just over 50%?

I am a fan of the guy, but the Pats don't have the CAP space, and he would be a lot more happy playing for Oakland were Schaub can get him in to the HOF.

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I have to strongly disagree. Johnson has been frustrated by that offense for a ton of reasons, none are "GET ME THE DAMN BALL", like Keyshawn used to say.

Andre has been frustrated by awful QB play, and less than exemplary coaching. He gets the ball forced to him when covered and then they'll throw elsewhere or out of bounds when he's wide open.

I gotta say it would be pretty bad of the Texans if they just held on and let the kid rot. He's a hell of an asset, and he clearly is determined to give up money to play for a winner, as he's given up over $1 million so far.

Considering his no-BS personality, this isn't going to end well for the Texans unless they make a move.