BB rips Welker

upstater1 said:

Sounds like you bought the story about this being a personal vendetta.

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I didn't need to buy into anything,“one of the worst plays I’ve seen,’’ (meh,i've seen far worst play) “I’ll let the league handle the discipline on that play,’’ really?

he's letting the world know he has issue with Welker.I just hope that's the end of the story, he needs to let it go.

Danny said:

Another view can be seen here: Wes Welker's hit on Aqib Talib - YouTube

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This angle makes it look less malicious as Welker's decision to cut in real time has to come before he sees that Talib is cutting inside to follow Demaryius. I'm sure the play is designed for a high risk of collision as in best-case they collide at the right time and worst-case Talib avoids the collision freeing up Demaryius. Either way, it is a dirty design that makes man coverage on the play impossible. The NFL should make an attempt to remove this from the game but being that it helps the offense they probably won't.

Writing in still pissed off mode:

Well, as expected, the national and local media are all showing their fangs and gnashing their teeth at the Evil Emperor Belichick. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He holds it close to the vest and they call him a cold, arrogant ogre. He lets his true feelings show for once and they call him a classless sore loser. The whole damned lot of them can go take a freaking flying long leap over a short pier as far as I'm concerned.

My God, I have never seen such classless, sore-winner, hate-the-Pats, hate-The-Hoodie piling on as I have seen over the last 48 hours. From everyone and everywhere. It's so far and beyond the usual schadenfreude, it's disgusting.

We'll be back, so suck on it, haters. I cherish the day when the GOAT QB Brady will win that 4th ring and the rest of yas can all go cry in your Peyton Coors crap beer.

Ivan said:

That was a bad hit from Welker but he has absolutely no history of playing dirty and acting as if this makes him a dirtball is bullsh.t,

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Ok, so your proof that it's dirty is that Welker hasn't played dirty in the past?:

How many dirty hits does a player make before their first one?

There is no question Welker's job on that route was to take out Talib. He could have got out of the way but instead dropped his shoulder and hit Talib. The debatable question is whether there was an intent to injure. Only one person knows the answer to that question.

My opinion is that yes the play was obviously designed to only pick Talib.

My opinion is that it was Welker's intention to put a big hit on Talib.

I think its up in the air whether Welker wanted to injure.. but come on its obvious he was looking for that big hit.

And I will say that I find it an awful coincidence that it ended up taking the one player (other than Brady) that when removed was a guarantee of a win for them.

Welker knows this full well. He was on this team when Talib was taken out early in the game in last years AFC Championship game against the Ravens.

JMC00 said:

From that angle it's clear Welker wasn't running a route, he was running to deliberately crash into Talib.

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I think he's more than likely looking at Demaryius as Demaryius is looking at him. Demaryius and Welker cut at the same time, and Welker is probably hoping Talib sees him and goes over the top. Welker has a chance to brace (lower shoulder) when he realizes Talib cut inside and they are about to collide because he knew he was intent on cutting inside Talib the whole time. In real-time you can't know for sure what another person is going to do. I think, at least from Welker's POV, it's less intentional than it seems.

That type of pick play however is highly dangerous as the defender is cutting at the same time and it basically is set up so that the defender either avoids last second or collides. If they are going to protect defenseless receivers they have to do something about this.

Uncle Meat said:

If you've never seen that before, maybe you should have paid more attention, then.

I already told you what I think was the most likely scenario as to what happened. Read it again. I think that collision was most likely accidental, and any projection about an intent to injure is ridiculous in every way. Sure, the play was to deflect Talib from pursuit of the receiver, but it turned into a split-second game of chicken...neither guy was going to redirect or get out of the other one's way. Ooops...too late.

You can't project malicious intent there.

BTW, there is a guy on my Bills board named upstart who is a New England fan and has like 10s of thousands of posts there. I think his name was upstarter, and then people just called him uppy.

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Welker ran straight at a guy that wasn't looking at him AT ALL, there was no game of chicken. Just an unsuspecting defender getting knocked out. Oops it's to late? lol. Maybe he thought Talib was a giant football...

JMC00 said:

From that angle it's clear Welker wasn't running a route, he was running to deliberately crash into Talib.

He's looking at him the whole time.

Hope they try to do it to the Seahawks and they see it coming a mile away and Cam Chancellor or Earl Thomas drops the boom on him.

I hope one of those guys on Denver's first drive knocks Welker senseless. And don't think they won't do it either.

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If Welker tries that pick again in the SB he'll probably be leaving the field on a stretcher.

upstater1 said:

This isn't the last you've heard of this. I bet you in next year's Denver game you're going to see a New England DB crush a WR even coming close to setting up a pick. Maybe they'll have someone like Duron Harmon do it, or even a linebacker like Jamie Collins. Imagine Collins crushing you at full speed when your head is looking at Manning?

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Actually, I think this is a good idea. If you get picked, especially like this at full speed, unload on the receiver. Its worth allowing a completion to make them skiddish.

The media is skewering Belichick for his comments. And, I'm sure the NFL league office will gladly sweep this whole thing under the rug. Am I alone in thinking that it's time for Robert Kraft to take the gloves off and defend his head coach in this matter?

Belichick has no pull; Kraft does, and if is head coach truly believes what Welker did was intentional based on his 35 years of coaching experience, Kraft owes it to his coach and his franchise to pursue this with vigor. I'll be disappointed in him if he doesn't.

I hate to add yet another worthless opinion on the matter... but i will

Welker's only goal that play was to Pick. I think Welker made a single-minded, bone-headed decision to keep trying to make Talib go high when it was clear Welker did NOT have position to force him there. I ~doubt~ he was trying to hurt anyone or lay wood: his intention was to get the DB off course. Stupid play, shoulda been a penalty, and the result is a dude gets injured.

But, I doubt there'll be any disciplinary action or fines based on that the hit itself was legal: no helmet to helmet, etc etc. NFL will admit it shoulda been a flag, but that's it; no more than if someone got injured on a no-call holding play.

upstater1 said:

This isn't the last you've heard of this. I bet you in next year's Denver game you're going to see a New England DB crush a WR even coming close to setting up a pick. Maybe they'll have someone like Duron Harmon do it, or even a linebacker like Jamie Collins. Imagine Collins crushing you at full speed when your head is looking at Manning?

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This is exactly what is going to happen if the NFL doesn't enforce the rule. BB made a calculated statement about how dangerous pick plays are if the receiver isn't looking for the ball. If the NFL doesn't warn teams than receivers are going to get crushed.

Kenneth Sims said:

The media is skewering Belichick for his comments. And, I'm sure the NFL league office will gladly sweep this whole thing under the rug. Am I alone in thinking that it's time for Robert Kraft to take the gloves off and defend his head coach in this matter?

Belichick has no pull; Kraft does, and if is head coach truly believes what Welker did was intentional based on his 35 years of coaching experience, Kraft owes it to his coach and his franchise to pursue this with vigor. I'll be disappointed in him if he doesn't.

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Well said sir.

upstater1 said:

When you make claims, back it up.

When you say they were in a straight line, show us. You can't because it didn't happen.

When you say it happens all the time, give just one example. if it happens all the time, give us even one example of it happening.

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Check out this article. It was written BEFORE the game happened.

Patriots, Broncos excel at running pick plays, which are mostly legal | The MMQB with Peter King

These plays aren't anything new or even unexpected in this game. It was written about previous to the game.

And here is something of an example. Dunno what you want me to do to "find an example"



If you think that that the burden of proof on those that make claims, then prove that there was malicious intent to injure. That's the main thing here, and I haven't seen it.

Also, why focus on this play so much? Peyton Manning's production didn't suddenly go up after Talib went out. It basically stayed on the same track. The Patriots were outmatched on BOTH sides of the ball on Sunday and were going to lose anyway.

Uncle Meat said:

Check out this article. It was written BEFORE the game happened.

Patriots, Broncos excel at running pick plays, which are mostly legal | The MMQB with Peter King

These plays aren't anything new or even unexpected in this game. It was written about previous to the game.

And here is something of an example. Dunno what you want me to do to "find an example"

If you think that that the burden of proof on those that make claims, then prove that there was malicious intent to injure. That's the main thing here, and I haven't seen it.

Also, why focus on this play so much? Peyton Manning's production didn't suddenly go up after Talib went out. It basically stayed on the same track. The Patriots were outmatched on BOTH sides of the ball on Sunday and were going to lose anyway.

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You haven't proven anything here. Every single Patriots fan knows there are pick plays. Even in my very post to you I said the Patriots did an illegal pick play the prior series. No one here has ever contested that there are pick plays.

What seems to be the problem with you is a reading comprehension difficulty, because our posts specifically said that you're not going to find a WR that throws a cross-body-block at full speed as he veers intoa CB at full pursuit. I asked you to give me an example. You came back with an article about pick plays as though this was part of the discussion at all. In my very first reply to you I said Hooman had done a pick play right before the Welker-Talib play, and Simms described it as "powder puff."

The Brandon Five said:

An accidental collision? Dude, Wes lowered his shoulder. Demaryius was watching Wes and then cut back to set it up. Wes was watching Talib the whole time. There is no question that it was by design.

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It was a pick play, that is the only thing beyond dispute. They happen all the time.

Welker's job was to get in Talib's way somehow to hinder his pursuit of Thomas. Sure. Everyone has such plays in their arsenal. I'm saying that I think the play wasn't drawn up to create such an impact of a collision. Certainly not to injure Talib...there is no proof of that.

robbomango said:

Welker ran straight at a guy that wasn't looking at him AT ALL, there was no game of chicken. Just an unsuspecting defender getting knocked out. Oops it's to late? lol. Maybe he thought Talib was a giant football...

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Maybe Talib should have been more aware...you shouldn't speak to what he saw anyway, because you don't know that. Do you have any idea how quickly these things happen? Have you ever even PLAYED football? Bang-bang, and it's done.

Again, this is not why the Patriots lost, either.

upstater1 said:

You haven't proven anything here.

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Neither have you

upstater1 said:

our posts specifically said that you're not going to find a WR that throws a cross-body-block at full speed as he veers intoa CB at full pursuit. I asked you to give me an example.."

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Well, YOU called it that, not me. I called it an unfortunate collision. I gotta provide examples about that?

upstater1 said:

In my very first reply to you I said Hooman had done a pick play right before the Welker-Talib play, and Simms described it as "powder puff."

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LOL @ Phil Simms. Do you know what else he said during this game?

"Sometimes you throw it so well, the football travels a few more yards than you expect it to go."

Think about that quote for a second.

Phil Simms actually said this after Brady missed a wide-open Edelman on what should have been a long touchdown pass near the end of the 1st quarter.

I thought it was just a bad throw, but as it turns out, Brady just threw it TOO well or something.

That was a good one.

Uncle Meat said:

It was a pick play, that is the only thing beyond dispute. They happen all the time.

Welker's job was to get in Talib's way somehow to hinder his pursuit of Thomas. Sure. Everyone has such plays in their arsenal. I'm saying that I think the play wasn't drawn up to create such an impact of a collision. Certainly not to injure Talib...there is no proof of that.



Maybe Talib should have been more aware...you shouldn't speak to what he saw anyway, because you don't know that. Do you have any idea how quickly these things happen? Have you ever even PLAYED football? Bang-bang, and it's done.

Again, this is not why the Patriots lost, either.

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I never said it's why the Patriots lost, you keep saying that.

Welker ran right at Talib full speed and slammed into him, that was the intent. I didn't say he was trying to injure him but it's quite apparent the intent was to knock him on his arse.

It's a legal play, IF the ball reaches the receiver before the hit, I don't blame the refs for not calling it because it was so close and but it's very clear on what the play is designed for.

robbomango said:

I never said it's why the Patriots lost, you keep saying that.

Welker ran right at Talib full speed and slammed into him, that was the intent. I didn't say he was trying to injure him but it's quite apparent the intent was to knock him on his arse.

It's a legal play, IF the ball reaches the receiver before the hit, I don't blame the refs for not calling it because it was so close and but it's very clear on what the play is designed for.

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If that's your take, so what's the problem then?