Post Combine top 4 Pats 3-4 DE players: Brockers - Cox - Still - Randall

Ochmed Jones · Mar 4, 2012

Ideally the Pats are looking for near 300 pounders with length and the ability to keep O linemen free from the LBers.

1.) Brockers LSU - With his weight down to the 305 to 310 range. Top 20 pick.

2.) Cox Miss State- Top 20 pick.

3.) Still Penn State- Top 20 pick.

4.) Randall Texas - Second round pick. My sleeper candidate. His tape looks horrible, but I remain confused as to what kind of defense Texas was running. Might have been miscast in a poorly designed Texas defense.

patsfaninpa · Mar 4, 2012

Ochmed Jones said:
Ideally the Pats are looking for near 300 pounders with length and the ability to keep O linemen free from the LBers.

1.) Brockers LSU - With his weight down to the 305 to 310 range. Top 20 pick.

2.) Cox Miss State- Top 20 pick.

3.) Still Penn State- Top 20 pick.

4.) Randall Texas - Second round pick. My sleeper candidate. His tape looks horrible, but I remain confused as to what kind of defense Texas was running. Might have been miscast in a poorly designed Texas defense.

I think we have to trade up for one of your top 3. 31 and 63 into late teens should do the trick. Might be able to get Perry, Mercilus or Branch at 27. That's my goal. A two gap de and an olb. I wanted that last year too. So, I'm sure we won't do it. Randall was the top DT recruit in the country. Has played like a dog IMO. Don't want. If we don't go two gapper in Round 1. Maybe K. Reyes at 48. I prefer him over Randall.

Wilfork#75 · Mar 4, 2012

Ochmed Jones said:
Ideally the Pats are looking for near 300 pounders with length and the ability to keep O linemen free from the LBers.

1.) Brockers LSU - With his weight down to the 305 to 310 range. Top 20 pick.

2.) Cox Miss State- Top 20 pick.

3.) Still Penn State- Top 20 pick.

4.) Randall Texas - Second round pick. My sleeper candidate. His tape looks horrible, but I remain confused as to what kind of defense Texas was running. Might have been miscast in a poorly designed Texas defense.

I've liked Kheeston Randle for a while, I even had him in my first 2012 mock back at last years draft. However, he never stepped up and lived up to the expectations many had of him. He is strong against the run, has a good anchor and can hold up against double teams. He has almost ideal measurables for a Pats 3-4 DE, had a average 3-cone time and showed some explosion with a 34" verticle. What he doesn't give you though is any form of a pass rush. While I thought he showed some really good bull rush skills and the ability to toss guys around easily when he gained leverage during the senior bowl practices, none of this showed up on tape. He really lacked the ability to make an impact last season, even though he has flashed some potential in the past.

Right now I think he is a 4th round pick because he doesn't fit a lot of schemes. He doesn't have the skills to be a 4-3 UT, and doesn't seem to have the bulk for a 4-3 NT. I think his ideal position in the NFL is as a 2-gap 3-4 DE, so I think he would be a good fit. Though you have to understand what you are getting. He is a two down, run stuffing base DE that needs to be taken out on passing downs, so he is really a role player. But in the 4th round I think you would be prett happy with a solid role player.

Daigle · Mar 4, 2012

I really like Cox now after the combine. Looks really athletic for a 300 pounder. Although was a bit confused when I think one guy at NFL Network said he is not an everydown prospect ? From what I see at 300 pounds and that athletic he could bulk up and play 5 tech or play 3 tech in a 4-3.

With that speed he´s got plenty of room to go either way and be both good passrusher and runstuffer.

everlong · Mar 4, 2012

Sadly all the impact 3-4 DE's are going to be gone and Bill isn't trading up.

Also none of the OLBs that meet the measurables look to make a smooth enough transition for Bill to draft them before somebody else does the more I look at them.

This forum will be nuts once again when they trade down with guys like Perry, Mercilious and Branch on the board. Hightower as an inside/outside hybrid is the only one I can see them taking in the first.

Christopher Patriot · Mar 4, 2012

I think we bring in super mario, draft mercilus and Quick, sign brandon lloyd and trade for Wallace, let branch go, resign welker to cap friendly deal trade for jonathan stewart, draft gilmore, and robinson and that is my dream.

patsderoer · Mar 4, 2012

everlong said:
Sadly all the impact 3-4 DE's are going to be gone and Bill isn't trading up.

Nothing is lost. Wolfe will still be there and he's the best of the bunch.
Crick is also going to be there, and he put up much better sack #s than Still playing in the same conference same position.

everlong · Mar 4, 2012

Wolfe is a 4th rounder at best. Crick's interesting but with the injury they won't take him until the second.

ayjackson · Mar 4, 2012

everlong said:
Sadly all the impact 3-4 DE's are going to be gone and Bill isn't trading up.

I haven't specifically looked at every team's needs but I think that one or two from Poe, Brockers, Cox, Still, Worthy and Reyes will be there for the taking at 27. I wouldn't mind any of them at the cost of #27, but prefer the first four a little more (enough to move up a bit once three of them are gone).

captain stone · Mar 4, 2012

Ochmed Jones said:
Ideally the Pats are looking for near 300 pounders with length and the ability to keep O linemen free from the LBers.

1.) Brockers LSU - With his weight down to the 305 to 310 range. Top 20 pick.

2.) Cox Miss State- Top 20 pick.

3.) Still Penn State- Top 20 pick.

4.) Randall Texas - Second round pick. My sleeper candidate. His tape looks horrible, but I remain confused as to what kind of defense Texas was running. Might have been miscast in a poorly designed Texas defense.

Agree w/ the top 3, but would rather Reyes than Randall; prob. Wolfe than Randall too.

What's your opinion on Billy Winn, DaJohn Harris & Akiem Hicks as 3rd-round or beyond options,
should Bill once again neglect to address DL with any of our first 4 picks?

SirApropos · Mar 4, 2012

I would be willing to accept Reyes at 31. He's looked good at both the Senior Bowl and Combine.

Off The Grid · Mar 4, 2012

Wilfork#75 said:
I've liked Kheeston Randle for a while, I even had him in my first 2012 mock back at last years draft. However, he never stepped up and lived up to the expectations many had of him. He is strong against the run, has a good anchor and can hold up against double teams. He has almost ideal measurables for a Pats 3-4 DE, had a average 3-cone time and showed some explosion with a 34" verticle. What he doesn't give you though is any form of a pass rush. While I thought he showed some really good bull rush skills and the ability to toss guys around easily when he gained leverage during the senior bowl practices, none of this showed up on tape. He really lacked the ability to make an impact last season, even though he has flashed some potential in the past.

Right now I think he is a 4th round pick because he doesn't fit a lot of schemes. He doesn't have the skills to be a 4-3 UT, and doesn't seem to have the bulk for a 4-3 NT. I think his ideal position in the NFL is as a 2-gap 3-4 DE, so I think he would be a good fit. Though you have to understand what you are getting. He is a two down, run stuffing base DE that needs to be taken out on passing downs, so he is really a role player. But in the 4th round I think you would be prett happy with a solid role player.

Could not have possibly said it better, myself.

UK_Pat37 · Mar 5, 2012

Ochmed Jones said:
Ideally the Pats are looking for near 300 pounders with length and the ability to keep O linemen free from the LBers.

1.) Brockers LSU - With his weight down to the 305 to 310 range. Top 20 pick.

2.) Cox Miss State- Top 20 pick.

3.) Still Penn State- Top 20 pick.

4.) Randall Texas - Second round pick. My sleeper candidate. His tape looks horrible, but I remain confused as to what kind of defense Texas was running. Might have been miscast in a poorly designed Texas defense.

I prefer Crick as a two-gapping defender to Cox and would stick him up in your top four. First round talent without the injury this year imo.

Ochmed Jones · Mar 6, 2012

Reyes is #5 on my list. I liked his work at the All Star game and the combine, but the tape shows a guy that plays high and prefers to shoot gaps as opposed to read and react., which translate more to a boom or bust prospect, ie: the Brace syndrome.

Wilfork#75 · Mar 7, 2012

There are quite a few late round/UDFA project guys at 3-4 DE that I really like. My favorite is Chigbo Anunoby of Morehouse. He's 6'4" 324lbs and projects well to 3-4 DE. From what I have been able to find out about him, he seems like a hard worker and a very good athlete for his size. He has said his aim is to hit 60 reps in the bench press at his pro day. Probable UDFA

2012 NFL Scouting Report- Chigbo Anunoby

Some other guys I like are Charles Deas from Shaw, who at 6'6" 306lbs looks to have an ideal frame for the position. He is raw but has high upside. 7th/UDFA

2012 NFL Draft Scouting Reports on Charles Deas -

Tony Jerod-Eddie from Texas A&M. Has a good combination of size and athleticism, but has trouble with his pad level. He flashed at the Senior Bowl practices, but still has a long way to go. With some coaching though he could be a starter at DE. 7th/UDFA

Tony Jerod Eddie 2012 NFL Draft Scouting Reports -

And a developmental NT in Ishmaa'ily Kitchen at 6'1" 343 lbs. A thick, strong and powerful kid that would be a good option as a developmental, practice squad NT. UDFA

Ishmaaily Kitchen 2012 NFL Draft Scouting Reports -

The most interesting guy to me though is Armond Armstead from USC. He was a former 5 star recruit, who flashed some big time potential but never really reached it. He was looking to have a breakout year in 2011 but he was sidelined with an unknown medical condition and was eventually red shirted. Unhappy with the USC docters not clearing him, Armstead was looking to transfer for the 2012 season, but it seems he has changed his mind and will enter the 2012 draft.

Former USC defensive tackle Armond Armstead, who did not play his senior season because of a mysterious medical condition, will turn pro, his father said.

Guss Armstead confirmed that his son has hired an agent and will participate in some portion of USC’s pro day Wednesday. Guss Armstead referred further questions to the agent, Carter Chow, who did not immediately return a call seeking comment.

Because he graduated in December, Armond Armstead will be eligible for April’s NFL draft, a league spokesman said.

Armstead had talked about possibly transferring after USC’s doctors wouldn’t clear him to play. It’s unclear why Armstead did not pursue that option.

Armond Armstead | USC

While the medical issue is a huge concern, Armstead does have the physical tools to be a quality starting DE in a 3-4 defense. He's 6'5" 290lbs, although he has the frame to easily carry 300lbs+. He is a likely late round/UDFA, but could be a steal if he can stay healthy and develop they way he could

2012 NFL Scouting Report- Armond Armstead

I originally had Akiem Hicks on list list as well, but his stock is skyrocketing and he is very quickly becoming overrated.

Sciz · Mar 7, 2012

60 reps?! Even if he only gets half that, it's ridiculously impressive given his 34.5 inch arms.

Off The Grid · Mar 7, 2012

Wilfork#75 said:
There are quite a few late round/UDFA project guys at 3-4 DE that I really like. My favorite is Chigbo Anunoby of Morehouse. He's 6'4" 324lbs and projects well to 3-4 DE. From what I have been able to find out about him, he seems like a hard worker and a very good athlete for his size. He has said his aim is to hit 60 reps in the bench press at his pro day. Probable UDFA

2012 NFL Scouting Report- Chigbo Anunoby

Some other guys I like are Charles Deas from Shaw, who at 6'6" 306lbs looks to have an ideal frame for the position. He is raw but has high upside. 7th/UDFA

2012 NFL Draft Scouting Reports on Charles Deas -

Tony Jerod-Eddie from Texas A&M. Has a good combination of size and athleticism, but has trouble with his pad level. He flashed at the Senior Bowl practices, but still has a long way to go. With some coaching though he could be a starter at DE. 7th/UDFA

Tony Jerod Eddie 2012 NFL Draft Scouting Reports -

And a developmental NT in Ishmaa'ily Kitchen at 6'1" 343 lbs. A thick, strong and powerful kid that would be a good option as a developmental, practice squad NT. UDFA

Ishmaaily Kitchen 2012 NFL Draft Scouting Reports -

The most interesting guy to me though is Armond Armstead from USC. He was a former 5 star recruit, who flashed some big time potential but never really reached it. He was looking to have a breakout year in 2011 but he was sidelined with an unknown medical condition and was eventually red shirted. Unhappy with the USC docters not clearing him, Armstead was looking to transfer for the 2012 season, but it seems he has changed his mind and will enter the 2012 draft.

Armond Armstead | USC

While the medical issue is a huge concern, Armstead does have the physical tools to be a quality starting DE in a 3-4 defense. He's 6'5" 290lbs, although he has the frame to easily carry 300lbs+. He is a likely late round/UDFA, but could be a steal if he can stay healthy and develop they way he could

2012 NFL Scouting Report- Armond Armstead

I originally had Akiem Hicks on list list as well, but his stock is skyrocketing and he is very quickly becoming overrated.

Beauty!! I just said it on another thread, and here you've already made the same point, before me: This Class is RICH with Bargain Basement D Line Talent!! :rocker:

KevinFaulk-33 · Mar 8, 2012

Which type od DE are we going to pick? A penetrating one or the Ty Warren one?

ay-yo · Mar 8, 2012

1. Cox - great athleticism, recgonized by coaches as one of the best DL in SEC. Day 1 starter

2. Still - looked great on tape early in the season, some tough circumstances to play through later on. Pretty good combine IMO. Day 1 starter.

3. Brockers - giant dude with all the potential in the world and there's simply not that many of these guys on the planet. Needs to improve however. Rotational player, maybe more, day 1.

4. Poe - giant dude with all the potential in the world and there's simply not that many of these guys on the planet. Needs to improve however. Rotational player, maybe more, day 1. Not really a DE but b/t him and Vince and the other DE it'd work just fine.

Not really sold on anybody else as round 1 talent.

Ochmed Jones · Mar 8, 2012

ay-yo said:
1. Cox - great athleticism, recgonized by coaches as one of the best DL in SEC. Day 1 starter

2. Still - looked great on tape early in the season, some tough circumstances to play through later on. Pretty good combine IMO. Day 1 starter.

3. Brockers - giant dude with all the potential in the world and there's simply not that many of these guys on the planet. Needs to improve however. Rotational player, maybe more, day 1.

4. Poe - giant dude with all the potential in the world and there's simply not that many of these guys on the planet. Needs to improve however. Rotational player, maybe more, day 1. Not really a DE but b/t him and Vince and the other DE it'd work just fine.

Not really sold on anybody else as round 1 talent.

I really don't think any of these four can start from day 1 on our defense. Even Seymour needed a half season or so before he could break into the rotation and Warren needed a whole red shirt year.

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