For those thinking 16-0...

[Haterproof]

First of all if you read my entire post you would realize that I said the Pats would most likely not go undefeated. All I said was that the pieces of this team thus far are much greater than the pieces of the 14-2 teams. Anyone can see that.

A team will go undefeated again eventually. Whether you want to believe it or not, it will happen. On paper (which I know means very little), this team is as complete as any team of the last 10 years or so. I was just trying to say I can understand the 16-0 talk. Sure its early, but I'm a fan and I have a right to think about the whole season, rather than just the Cincinnati Bengals. Just becuase that the team's and Belichicks mantra, doesn't mean it has to be mine too.

I stand corrected about the Colts defense in 2005. The 2005 and 2006 seasons have somewhat blurred together for me. Even though the Colts ranked 14 in stopping the run, they still had the 5th total defense.

The only thing I hate about a team possibly going undefeated is the media frenzy that comes along with it.I just don't want the Pats to fall into the same trap as the Colts did in 2005.I can gaurentee you that if the Pats do go 15-0 BB would go for the entire thing.He won't rest starters IMO.

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

I really enjoyed last weeks (?) HBO's "Inside the NFL" when Chris Carter said to Marino, Collinsworth and Costas with a straight face that he thought that this Patriots team could possibly go undefeated.

What I really loved was watching Bob Costas's reaction. He almost fell off his chair and his eyes got as big as saucers and he looked bewildered and said "undefeated????" (All this after he pretty much dared Goodell to suspend/fine the Patriots even more)

Marino and Collinsworth immediately agreed that Patriots were "that good"

 

[psychoPat]

How i have avoided this thread! ... But
Belichick ... Brady ... Maroney ... Faulk ... Watson ... DaveThomas ... Moss ... Welker ... Stallworth ... Mankins ... Koppen ... Warren ... Wilfork ... Seymour ... Colvin ... Adalius ... Seau ... Vrabel ... Samuel ... Hobbs ... Wilson.

Who can roll prayer beads as good as those?
The virtual all-star team!
Health permitting, that means we get the top seed
and odds-on to win the AFCG at home
and the Lombardi in Arizona.

But the question before the house is Undefeated?

I can imagine it.
I don't EXPECT it.
But it is there to be taken.

If, by the final games, the Patriots have not yet had a loss
the starters will run onto the field to play regardless of what BB decrees.
But he'll want it too, of course.
What better rejoinder to the media's feeding frenzy and the league's kangaroo court?

 

[JJDChE]

I stand corrected about the Colts defense in 2005. The 2005 and 2006 seasons have somewhat blurred together for me. Even though the Colts ranked 14 in stopping the run, they still had the 5th total defense.

No, you were right. Their '05 defense couldn't stop the run either. 28th in the NFL in yards allowed per attempt. Although, they were better than last years team at stopping the run. The '06 Colts ranked dead last in the NFL in stopping the run. They were historically bad at stopping the run last year. 5.3 yards allowed per carry. I think there were less than 10 teams in NFL history that have allowed more yards per rushing attempt than last years Colts.

So far this year they are 11th in stopping the run, don't worry though, it won't last long. They haven't cracked the top 20 in YPC for a long time. They don't have the personnel to stand up to the run for a whole season.

 

[TruthSeeker]

You kind of glossed over the part where I said, "and no significant injury."

I think 12-4, with a win over the colts, would give us a decent chance at a bye (maybe 50/50 or 40/60). I'd take that right now if you offered it to me, if I could be guaranteed of no significant injuries going into the playoffs.

You sort of indicate you think that undervalues our team. It's actually the exact opposite. I think with a healthy team and either a first round bye or a home gome in our first round, there's nobody I'd give a better shot to for Arizona.

Correction noted. However, given our 14-2 records in 2003 and 2004 with many significant injuries, I still believe you don't give nearly enough credit to the team as a whole which, IMO, is deeper than either of those teams.

 

[He Ban Me]

....maybe we should just get a quality win first:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_987_2007_Quality_Standings.html

 

[JJDChE]

In '05 the Colts were playing games where it was over in the 3rd quarter. A lot of garbage time in those days. Like the 40-21 beating we gave the Pats that year. We were #2 in points allowed which is the most important stat for a defense in my opinion. So that's a misleading stat.

To say we cannot keep up this pace is silly and is based on nothing but hatred for the other team.

They were 28th in the NFL in yards allowed per carry. I'm not sure how you can use situational arguments to explain that away.

Yeah, they were good at keeping teams out of the endzone, but that's not really related to how good their run defense was. That was more a function of the D forcing turnovers and mistakes because teams were taking a lot of big risks to keep up. If the offense wasn't so dominant that defense would've got rolled.

The Colts have never had good run defense under Dungy and it's highly unlikely they ever will. It's a defensive philosophy, they just don't have the beef in their front 7 to be a good run D. They're a gambling D that uses stunts and gaps to stop the run. Sometimes they make a lot of big stops at the line and in the backfield, sometimes they get burnt.

Nothing wrong with that. They intentionally acquire personnel up front that are smaller and faster to fit into their scheme.

 

[He Ban Me]

They were 28th in the NFL in yards allowed per carry. I'm not sure how you can use situational arguments to explain that away.

Yeah, they were good at keeping teams out of the endzone, but that's not really related to how good their run defense was. That was more a function of the D forcing turnovers and mistakes because teams were taking a lot of big risks to keep up. If the offense wasn't so dominant that defense would've got rolled.

The Colts have never had good run defense under Dungy and it's highly unlikely they ever will. It's a defensive philosophy, they just don't have the beef in their front 7 to be a good run D. They're a gambling D that uses stunts and gaps to stop the run. Sometimes they make a lot of big stops at the line and in the backfield, sometimes they get burnt.

Nothing wrong with that. They intentionally acquire personnel up front that are smaller and faster to fit into their scheme.

Did Tampa have a good run D under Dungy? How many games before our D starts getting run over?

 

[OhExaulted1]

We probably will lose once or twice to keep this team motivated. 16-0 going into the playoffs almost scares me. I just want to witness another championship.

I could care less if they finished 11-5 or 16-0. This is my team. I expect to be watching the Pats in the SB. I think our Road Warriors will get us to 4-0 Monday. JMO.

BTW, an 11-5 injury ridden team with guys coming back before the playoffs is almost as scary as an undefeated favorite. You expect them to fail, but then they pull off the impossible.

 

[FlyingElvis75]

....maybe we should just get a quality win first:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_987_2007_Quality_Standings.html

I like the idea, but I would prefer if they used a system that also took into account losses against weak opponents. Win or lose next week, the Pats will still be 0-0 vs. "quality" opponents, but if they lose, they'll look (legitimately) pretty bad to us...

 

[SeanBruschi54]

Well they're taking up where they left off in the playoffs last year. The only way any defense gets burned is if they don't make tackles or if you go no huddle on an aging line-backing core in the AFCCG.

What are you mad that he proved a point?

That was a sorry comeback.

 

[TruthSeeker]

We probably will lose once or twice to keep this team motivated.

I have always believed that this is about the worst logic around. I couldn't stand it in 2001 when silly TV commentators (and many others) were saying that it would be better for the Patriots to lose than to continue on a winning streak because they'd never be able to keep the streak alive.

Rubbish.

The Patriots have a long history of having no problem with motivation whether their last game was a win or a loss. They are not your typical NFL team. They are a Bill Belichick team. They think like BB. They act like BB. They talk like BB. They take games one at a time. They truly believe that this week's game is the most important game to focus on and to do whatever it takes to win this week.

There is no need for this team to ever lose to stay motivated. There just isn't.

 

[JJDChE]

Did Tampa have a good run D under Dungy? How many games before our D starts getting run over?

If you're seriously comparing the personnel that Dungy had in Tampa with this Colts D then you are delusional. The Bucs spent all their money on defense, the Colts spend it on offense. Unless you see that changing you aren't going to be seeing any great defense in Indy.

The only guy on Indy's D that would have started on Tampa's great defenses is probably Sanders, maybe Freeney, and Sanders would have to move to FS he wouldn't have started over Lynch.

 

[JJDChE]

Well they're taking up where they left off in the playoffs last year.

Why do you think they're playing better?

The only way any defense gets burned is if they don't make tackles or if you go no huddle on an aging line-backing core in the AFCCG.

 

[PantsB]

There are many reason the Pats probably won't go 16-0. Travel is not one of them. The Patriots travel schedule isn't bad at all this year. 6 out of 9 games is not unusual. Five out of 9 would be completely standard - adding one game isn't a big shift. Other than Dallas, all the Patriots away games are either East Coast (AFC East, NYG, Baltimore) or Midwest (Indy, Cincy). The remaining schedule is

Away Cincy,
Home
Away Dallas
Away MIA
Home
Away Indy
Bye
Away Buff
Home
Away Balt
Home
Home
Home
Away NYG

That is not a bad travel schedule. The most is two weeks in a row and that only happens once. The bye week cushions away to Indy AND away to Buff and neither of them is more than a 2 hour flight. Dallas is the only tough travel situation.

Now 2008, with trips @OAK, @SD, @SF and @SEA, thats a tough road schedule.

 

[Imperator]

One thing I wanted to add was if you Pats fans think you're just gonna run through every team in the league you're mistaken. Colts went 13-0 and 10-0 in back to back seasons and after 3 games the Pats are getting more press than the Colts did in both those seasons combined. It's only week 4, my goodness. Lol! I know you think your coach is a genius, he might be, but other coaches aren't stupid. Someone will figure something out and in this copy cat league it only takes someone stopping you once before other teams copy what the previous team did.

I think the reason there is because the Patriots are a more complete team then those Colts. They had an at best, average defense, and relied on Manning and that high powered Offense to rack up the score and win games. The Patriots this year have a powerful offense that can score not only when it needs, but seemingly at will. And a tough, stingy and formidable defense that always ranks at the top of the league year in and year out.

I'm not saying they're gonna go 16 - 0. I don't think they will, and I'll probably remain skeptical about it unless they beat the Steelers in week 14.

 

[He Ban Me]

If you're seriously comparing the personnel that Dungy had in Tampa with this Colts D then you are delusional. The Bucs spent all their money on defense, the Colts spend it on offense. Unless you see that changing you aren't going to be seeing any great defense in Indy.

The only guy on Indy's D that would have started on Tampa's great defenses is probably Sanders, maybe Freeney, and Sanders would have to move to FS he wouldn't have started over Lynch.

You said:


The Colts have never had good run defense under Dungy and it's highly unlikely they ever will.

I took it to mean that Dungy wasn't capable of fielding a good run defense. HAD you said, "The Colts have never had a good run defense under Polian" , or "under Manning", or "with their offensive philosphy", THEN we might have been on the same page. I just think the run defense has more to do with Organizational philosphy than Dungy's philosphy or coaching capability.

You also said:

They don't have the personnel to stand up to the run for a whole season.

AND:

They intentionally acquire personnel up front that are smaller and faster to fit into their scheme.


These statements, tied in with the comment about Dungy make it again seem as though there is an inherent flaw with DUNGY and his APPROACH to building a defense.

As far as I know, Dungy is acquiring the same type of players in Indy as he did in Tampa. HOWEVER, I DO assume that Dungy's players in Tampa were on average, drafted higher than the Colts defensive players. Recently however, Colts have drafted for defense in the earlier rounds. Of our 11 starters, 8 were drafted by the Colts. 5 of the eight were round 2 or better. We also have a 3rd, 5th, and 6th round starter. Of our FREE AGENTS, one was a second round selection (Brock) and one was a 3rd round selection (Brackett). It would APPEAR to me that MOST of these starters were looked at as quality when they were drafted. MEANING that the TALENT LEVEL is there. The SIZE might not be, but the TALENT is.

So, naturally, I ask you,

DID DUNGY HAVE A GOOD RUN D IN TAMPA???

WHEN WILL THE COLTS START GETTING RUN OVER???

 

[Bo0MeR]

You said:


The Colts have never had good run defense under Dungy and it's highly unlikely they ever will.

I took it to mean that Dungy wasn't capable of fielding a good run defense. HAD you said, "The Colts have never had a good run defense under Polian" , or "under Manning", or "with their offensive philosphy", THEN we might have been on the same page. I just think the run defense has more to do with Organizational philosphy than Dungy's philosphy or coaching capability.

You also said:

They don't have the personnel to stand up to the run for a whole season.

AND:

They intentionally acquire personnel up front that are smaller and faster to fit into their scheme.


These statements, tied in with the comment about Dungy make it again seem as though there is an inherent flaw with DUNGY and his APPROACH to building a defense.

As far as I know, Dungy is acquiring the same type of players in Indy as he did in Tampa. HOWEVER, I DO assume that Dungy's players in Tampa were on average, drafted higher than the Colts defensive players. Recently however, Colts have drafted for defense in the earlier rounds. Of our 11 starters, 8 were drafted by the Colts. 5 of the eight were round 2 or better. We also have a 3rd, 5th, and 6th round starter. Of our FREE AGENTS, one was a second round selection (Brock) and one was a 3rd round selection (Brackett). It would APPEAR to me that MOST of these starters were looked at as quality when they were drafted. MEANING that the TALENT LEVEL is there. The SIZE might not be, but the TALENT is.

So, naturally, I ask you,

DID DUNGY HAVE A GOOD RUN D IN TAMPA???

WHEN WILL THE COLTS START GETTING RUN OVER???

good post..!! People tend to forget that in 2005 the Colts had a top 5 D in the league, even with last years regular season they were able to come back together when it counted. They have proven that they are a good defense and I doubt they will start getting run over any time this season

 

[Oswlek]

good post..!! People tend to forget that in 2005 the Colts had a top 5 D in the league, even with last years regular season they were able to come back together when it counted. They have proven that they are a good defense and I doubt they will start getting run over any time this season

The Colts had a top 5 scoring D because

a) They played a dreadful schedule for most of the year - the first 7 games were historically bad.

b) Other teams were almost always down by a significant amount and that plays right into the team's defensive structure.

I would take this year's defense every day of the week and twice on Sunday over that 2005 edition. Pitt certainly had little respect for it in the playoffs, although they did look excellent when they slaughtered Pitt in the RS.

 

[JJDChE]

You said:


The Colts have never had good run defense under Dungy and it's highly unlikely they ever will.

I took it to mean that Dungy wasn't capable of fielding a good run defense. HAD you said, "The Colts have never had a good run defense under Polian" , or "under Manning", or "with their offensive philosphy", THEN we might have been on the same page. I just think the run defense has more to do with Organizational philosphy than Dungy's philosphy or coaching capability.

You also said:

They don't have the personnel to stand up to the run for a whole season.

AND:

They intentionally acquire personnel up front that are smaller and faster to fit into their scheme.


These statements, tied in with the comment about Dungy make it again seem as though there is an inherent flaw with DUNGY and his APPROACH to building a defense.

As far as I know, Dungy is acquiring the same type of players in Indy as he did in Tampa. HOWEVER, I DO assume that Dungy's players in Tampa were on average, drafted higher than the Colts defensive players. Recently however, Colts have drafted for defense in the earlier rounds. Of our 11 starters, 8 were drafted by the Colts. 5 of the eight were round 2 or better. We also have a 3rd, 5th, and 6th round starter. Of our FREE AGENTS, one was a second round selection (Brock) and one was a 3rd round selection (Brackett). It would APPEAR to me that MOST of these starters were looked at as quality when they were drafted. MEANING that the TALENT LEVEL is there. The SIZE might not be, but the TALENT is.

So, naturally, I ask you,

DID DUNGY HAVE A GOOD RUN D IN TAMPA???

WHEN WILL THE COLTS START GETTING RUN OVER???

OK, fair points. Change it to "they'll never have a good run defense while they are paying for 1st round draft picks at every skill position."

My point is, their defense is not that good nor will it ever be while the team has an offense first philosophy. They're not terrible, but they don't have the talent to be a top tier defense. At least I don't see it.