Former DE Jones Says Patriots "Not known for really paying guys over there"

[slash83]

It's just a gut feeling but I think Collins will want Miller money.

As in Von Miller? If so he's trippin..

 

[ivanvamp]

What he said is true. It's also not exactly a revelation. It's a non-story.

From (NFL 2016 Cash Tracker):

Pats' NFL ranking in terms of cash payroll for the year:
2011: 24th ($96.7 million)
2012: 6th ($122.6 million)
2013: 28th ($100.7 million)
2014: 21st ($127.3 million)
2015: 6th ($156.9 million)

Average NFL rank over the last 5 years: 17th - smack dab in the middle.

 

[Fencer]

I'm not sure why the Patriots have this perception that they don't pay their guys. Spending money wisely isn't the same as not spending.

The Patriots have above-average talent.

They're hard-capped, as is every other team in the league.

Thus, they're below average in what they pay per unit of talent.

 

[Fencer]

From (NFL 2016 Cash Tracker):

Pats' NFL ranking in terms of cash payroll for the year:
2011: 24th ($96.7 million)
2012: 6th ($122.6 million)
2013: 28th ($100.7 million)
2014: 21st ($127.3 million)
2015: 6th ($156.9 million)

Average NFL rank over the last 5 years: 17th - smack dab in the middle.

It would be hard to be otherwise, as long as one spends to the hard cap.

 

[IllegalContact]

LOL......the Bidwell's have not even extended him yet......

either way, who gives a f*ck

 

[RobertWeathers]

From (NFL 2016 Cash Tracker):

Pats' NFL ranking in terms of cash payroll for the year:
2011: 24th ($96.7 million)
2012: 6th ($122.6 million)
2013: 28th ($100.7 million)
2014: 21st ($127.3 million)
2015: 6th ($156.9 million)

Average NFL rank over the last 5 years: 17th - smack dab in the middle.

....and it doesn't matter what/how much you spend. As long as you win.

From 2013. Gotta think they were in the top 5 in 2014 and 2015 as well.

The New England Patriots, the NFL’s best team for the money, actually tied for the fifth-highest payroll from 2007 to 2011, averaging annual player expenses of $146 million. But in that time the Pats also led the league in regular-season victories with 65 and made two trips to the Super Bowl, though both ended in losses to the New York Giants. The next three teams on our list – the Giants, Packers and Steelers – have above-average player expenses but have each won at least one Super Bowl in recent seasons.

The Best And Worst NFL Teams For The Buck

 

[JMC00]

It's just a gut feeling but I think Collins will want Miller money.

No way is he gonna get $100m+ and there is no way Bus Cook will be looking for that. He'll be looking for Kuchely and Wagner money, $50m- $60m

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If I had a choice between:
A. endowing another generation of my family by making a few million more, vs.
B. having the personal satisfaction of being a champion,

I'd go with option A as well. Option B would be selfish, putting my short term emotional satisfaction in front of the education, health care, housing, etc. of people I love (or people in need, if I gave it to a productive charity).

Not to be facetious, but we act as if those are completely mutually exclusive. As some have noted, being a winner can help players make more money. Do you think that Edelman would be nearly as high-profile if he played for, say, the Browns?

 

[Ivan]

No way is he gonna get of $100m+ and there is no way Bus Cook will be looking for that. He'll be looking for Kuchely and Wagner money, $50m- $60m

I hope you are right, imo they can get both done at that price.

 

[letekro]

The Patriots have above-average talent.

They're hard-capped, as is every other team in the league.

Thus, they're below average in what they pay per unit of talent.

Thank you for clearly and concisely explaining why the perception of cheapness exists.

If the seahawks dominate for 10+ years they will constantly need to shed talent just like the Patriots do and the perception will stick to them as well.

 

[oldrover]

The Patriots have above-average talent.

They're hard-capped, as is every other team in the league.

Thus, they're below average in what they pay per unit of talent.

All very logical. One factor missing, though... the players who sign agree to these contracts. Therefore, many of the players they are signing must see a value to playing for the Pats, over and above the payday alone.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Not really fair to compare our spending to the rest of the league because we are consistently that much better than everyone else thus we have more guys who consider themselves really good players. Which means we have to let few really good players walk every so often.

Yea I think that is where the misconception that the Pats don't pay comes from... they're constantly in contention and have played in 6 super bowls..

Players like to leverage how good the team performs to getting paid, when in reality sometimes players are more role players or their production is a byproduct of an excellent team around them and they try to get paid like they're the #1 player at their position or feel they were the reason they won the Superbowl

Belichick has busted open the check book countless times for sure fire talent.. the very special players that are generational and deserve that contract and are reliable men.. you only invest that kind of money into players that you're 100% confident will be leaders and icons for your organization.


You don't give out those contracts to players like Jones who pad their sack totals in a handful of games against weak opponents and then disappear when the most important games in December and January are being played.

You also don't pay that kind of money to a player that was tripping out on drugs the week before an important playoff game...

I like Chandler Jones, I really wish he could have still been a part of this team and don't hold any ill will towards him, but if he thinks he's worth top 5 DE money then sorry, not sorry.

I wish him luck in Arizona, maybe they'll allow him to pin the ears back and just rush the passer instead of the added responsibility that was asked of him in this defense with outside containment and setting the edge

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I dunno bout not paying top players, I can name a lot of peeps that have gotten paid by this team, even if that isn't the case they're contending for a championship almost every single year so their system works. Count me in for someone who would of liked to see Jones still on the team, but with his inconsistency in the playoffs the patriots have three much more important players to take care of. I would take 54,91, and 21 over Jones any given Sunday.

True. Revis comes to mind. And got a SB out of it. I don't know what Moss got, but if it was alot, it was worth it.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Belichick has busted open the check book countless times for sure fire talent.. the very special players that are generational and deserve that contract and are reliable men.. you only invest that kind of money into players that you're 100% confident will be leaders and icons for your organization.

And evne then sometimes they disappoint you (Afailius Thomas, the Prisoner).

 

[borg]

Jones should be grateful he landed on a team that values stars disproportionately. $120 million for their WR team leader who might touch the ball 6 balls on a good day. Some teams requires stars to maintain gate receipts....like Arizona. Without stud QBs in their prime, teams can be leveraged to the max...like Arizona.

 

[AtomicDawg]

Except for that time they made Wilfork the highest paid NT in the league. And that time they made Mankins the highest paid G in the league. And Solder is currently in the top five highest paid T in the league. And when they made McCourty the fifth highest paid S in the league. And when they made Gostkowski the highest K in the league with his last extension. And that time they paid Revis $20 mil. And the fact that they're really paying Brady $20 mil a year, not the $14 mil "cap hit" that gets reported.
It all comes down to two things:

1) they only pay the best of the best so they can maintain a strong balanced roster, and
2) Belichick is a master at the salary cap and how contracts count against the cap relative to actual cash paid via incentives etc while spreading out numbers so the cap hits dont reflect actual dollars paid.
The HUGE big money contracts we hear about in the press are usually BS relative to what the player will ever be paid. Keep bluntin', Chandler.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Patriots: Chandler Jones not really know for "setting the edge".

 

[ILB#52]

The decision to move Jones was made after he showed up at Foxboro police station shirtless and stoned out of him mind.

 

[XLIX]

The Patriots will pay top dollar for top talent. What they do not do is overpay for the good-but-not-great players.

Chandler Jones is a solid player, but nobody is going to put him in the list of top players at his position.

 

[Urgent]

If you're trying to say that the Patriots are known for "paying guys", you're insane, because they certainly are not. If you're not trying to say that, you've got no real point.

I will respectfully take the insane side of that argument.

A review of the salary cap shows that the Patriots spend up to the cap more than many teams. An opinion that the Patriots are 'cheap' is unsupportable by fact. The Patriots ended the 2015 league year with $1.4mm in cap space. That's as tight as you can get.

Now one can argue that the Patriots tend to pay their bottom 20 more than average and their top 20 less than other teams. But even with that philosophy, there have been cases where they have led the league in salary by position. They paid that Revis fellow several years ago; Logan Mankins was the highest-paid guard for a while, making $10mm a year. Ty Law was one of the highest-paid corners near the end of his career here; Brady has done OK for himself. They dove into free agency for Adalius Thomas for serious pay. They often use the franchise tag, which by definition is near the top of the market. Right now Solder is earning $10mm a year, and I think McCourty's contract was at the top of the market when they signed him. Mayo got paid - he was right at the top of the market for inside linebackers. Wilfork got paid - his cap cost was over $19mm for 2012 & 2013. Moss made $11mm in 2010. And so forth.

The Patriots may not "be known for paying guys" but the facts say Mankins, Revis, Thomas, Solder, McCourty, Wilfork, Mayo, and Moss got paid, and the facts say that the Patriots pay right up to the cap.

Every year you see teams with $30 or $40mm in available cap space. The Patriots are never one of those teams.

For anyone interested in the 'allocate more money to the bottom 20' theory, please see the Malcolm Gladwell podcast entitled The Big Man Can't Shoot. He assesses professional sports leagues and whether you are better off improving your best player (NBA) or improving the bottom of your roster (European football leagues).