Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again

[BradyFTW!]

I wonder if that 1 odd ball was the kicking ball

It wasn't. The kicking balls are an entirely separate set of balls that have nothing to do with these 12. Different protocols, different markings, kept separate.

 

[TBR]

The interesting thing about the Ravens report is that if their balls were under-inflated, it wouldn't be from the Pats. The question is whether the refs are doing their job at that point.

I know, right? I'm pretty sure each team handles their own footballs - not just the home team.

 

[strngplyr]

The interesting thing about the Ravens report is that if their balls were under-inflated, it wouldn't be from the Pats. The question is whether the refs are doing their job at that point.

I have to assume (hate this word) that the Ravens' are implying the balls we kicked to them, that they returned, were underinflated, making them harder to catch or something...

If they're implying that they were kicking underinflated balls then holy **** are they ignorantly stupid in that they would be accusing themselves of wrong doing in the publics eye.

Unless I'm backwards in the belief that we kick our own kicking balls instead of supplying those to the Ravens to kick, which makes sense only in a world where you'd try to sabotage your opponent, which I also like to believe the NFL is against..

All that said, for clarity, who does provide the kicking ball? Are they league provided or also team supplied like the balls used on offense? No matter the answer, the Ravens getting involved look stupid for bringing this into the conversation either way.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The interesting thing about the Ravens report is that if their balls were under-inflated, it wouldn't be from the Pats. The question is whether the refs are doing their job at that point.

The Pats don't have possession of k-balls at any point post-inspection, so that claim is just dumb. It's probably true that the balls were under-inflated, but they were for both teams because for some asinine reason the league insists on measuring pressure indoors even when the game is being played in 20 degree outside weather.

 

[FourierSeries]

I love how fans of other teams are now calling for the Pats to be disqualified and allowing Indy/Baltimore to play for the right to participate in the SB. Their tears will be so delicious if we end up winning on Feb 1. Bring on the hate.

 

[Love The Drake]

Man I just want this to be over with concrete evidence one way or the other and I want BB and Kraft to stand up for this team!

 

[ctpatsfan77]

7) I think the environmental conditions, and the dynamic nature of those conditions (temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, etc.) played a very minor part in this whole situation. Reason being that the balls were probably never measured at 40 degrees F (game conditions). They were likely measured at around 70 degrees F (indoor/room temperature conditions). So any pressure losses attributable to a 30 degree temp differential would never come into play in any of these determinations, nor would they be meaningful either.​

It's worth pointing out here that it's an open question* what the temperature inside the football is. Picture a cooler. The walls of the cooler are designed to reduce, though not stop, the flow of heat over time. The walls of the football work much the same way. We simply don't know whether the temperature inside the balls was 40°F or 70°F or somewhere in between.

*Open both in the sense that no data has been provided (and I strongly suspect none will) and in the sense that I personally couldn't tell you what those values should be in a scenario like this. I can describe the general phenomenon, but I can't provide specific numbers.

 

[The Gr8est]

My suspicion is that because of the scrutiny the Pats are under, this won't be the last irregularity that the league, as a whole does, but everyone looks the other way, but one team wanting to make an issue of it will catch the Pats doing it.

The Pats are going to be the scapegoat for any practice the league wants to take issue with regardless if it is widespread and most, if not all, of the league does it.

 

[FirstAndGoal]

I know, right? I'm pretty sure each team handles their own footballs - not just the home team.

They do....that's how it's done.

So unless the Pats somehow got a hold of their balls, it's not them. I read the Ravens report and didn't think they were blaming the Pats. It sounded like they were saying "ours were under-inflated too". That leads me to the possibility that maybe the balls are coming from the factory like that and although the teams "work" on the balls to get them ready, they might just ignore the air pressure readings and assume the refs will take care of it... it's a possibility and might explain why the Ravens and Pats had the same issue (if it was).

I'm just throwing it out there but it's possible.

 

[Gronk]

A lot of your post seems to hinge on you believing the balls are approved before the season.

They are required to be approved two hours before kick off of the specific game, they require maintenance.

If they are below the limits then yes, they are "routinely" pumped up, to fix the error, or they would be rejected and corrected before they are allowed for use in a game.

I think the inference is that the refs just really do an eyeball test in the pre-game check, maybe squeeze em a bit, rather than a full on psi test with some fancy digital instrument. Like a chef checking a steak...they know what's it's supposed to look and feel like, so maybe you don't always take the exact temp. Of course if it seems wrong, you measure, and fix if need be. The idea that this is something refs would let go, or defer to teams (QBs) judgment on unless there's a clear violation or outlier in terms of inflation, isn't much of a stretch.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

I love how fans of other teams are now calling for the Pats to be disqualified and allowing Indy/Baltimore to play for the right to participate in the SB. Their tears will be so delicious if we end up winning on Feb 1. Bring on the hate.

How about this: Take the points the Patriots earned with under inflated balls. Colts still lose. Do they feel good now?

 

[james87654]

2) At game-time, the referees give lip service to the inspection, opting to use their sense of touch/feel vs an actual psi gauge on 12 or more footballs to assess each ball's individual pressure spec (again, this is my guess...and it could also be the reason why the NFL is now "very disappointed" because this check has not been rigorously/uniformly conducted).

3) All Teams know this...and present their footballs "as is" for the inspection, whether overly inflated like the Packers, or slightly underinflated like the Patriots (or maybe several other teams?). The idea here is that it's "on the referees" to determine the suitability of the balls...not the team itself.

4) Both BB and TB are well aware of this phenomenon, just like Aaron Rogers and the Packers are, so I guess you could say that they are all "complicit". However I'm guessing they would never stand in the way of a finding whereby a ball (or balls) needed to be inflated to a higher psi, if so determined. Yet they'd certainly accept the use of the balls "as is" because it's already been determined (in all those previous practices and games) that they are perfectly aligned to the preference of the QB who will be handling and/or throwing them during the game.

bingo

this is what i am guessing

 

[JMC00]

NFL policy dictates that if the balls are found to be below spec during the pre-game check, the remedy is simply to inflate them to the proper pressure.

Which we assume happened at halftime and the Pats scored 28 points and Brady started the half 12 of 13

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I have to assume (hate this word) that the Ravens' are implying the balls we kicked to them, that they returned, were underinflated, making them harder to catch or something...

If they're implying that they were kicking underinflated balls then holy **** are they ignorantly stupid in that they would be accusing themselves of wrong doing in the publics eye.

Unless I'm backwards in the belief that we kick our own kicking balls instead of supplying those to the Ravens to kick, which makes sense only in a world where you'd try to sabotage your opponent, which I also like to believe the NFL is against..

All that said, for clarity, who does provide the kicking ball? Are they league provided or also team supplied like the balls used on offense? No matter the answer, the Ravens getting involved look stupid for bringing this into the conversation either way.

Either way it makes NO sense and they are completely wrong and only trying to target the patriots or either standing up for them and accusing the Reffs which I highly doubt it's the later of the two. First if we did kick balls to them, then its easier to kick a hard ball further (go check the the Panthers twitter he made a few post about it) and two its easier to catch a softer ball. So why in the world would we under inflate the kicking ball.

Im 100% positive the ravens being the patriots haters they are spoke too quickly, and wish they hadn't.

 

[Danger Zone]

Sport Science better do an experiment to see if this had anything to do with the weather, pressure, Gay-Lussac's Law being a factor, etc..

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?...ence-first-cold-weather-super-bowl-180949521/


1:45 mark

Sports Science exposed a football at 10 degree temperatures for 1 hour. Its air pressure dropped over 20%.

The exact same laws of physics applies when the weather is in the 40's and 50's as well.

As several experts have guestimated, the expected drop in air pressure would be from 1.4 psi to 1.75 psi.

 

[Love The Drake]

If we get kicked out of the Superbowl it would be ridiculous.
I would never support the NFL again.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Which we assume happened at halftime and the Pats scored 28 points and Brady started the half 12 of 13

Point made!

Ps. who's that chick in your profile picture. She hot!

ps.ps Hope its not your girlfriend

 

[FrodoBagginz]

Whatever the outcome of the investigation, you can be sure there are going to be some changes most likely in the off season. Perhaps the ball boys will now be ball boys hired by the league rather than the teams.

 

[FourierSeries]

If we get kicked out of the Superbowl it would be ridiculous.
I would never support the NFL again.

Not happening.

 

[supafly]

The League allows for a range of 12.5 min to 13.5 max.

Brady has stated he prefers footballs at the lower.

It was raining.

Now lets all take a guess what the psi of the footballs were that the Patriots submitted to the Refs?

Do you really want to make the assumption that for some odd reason, the Patriots chose to submit footballs at the maximum psi of 13.5?

Yes, choosing to go with the maximum psi allowed puts the realistic potential drop in psi out of the realm of physics and into the realm of tampering or bungling.

Just as choosing to assume that the Patriots chose to submit footballs at the low end of the allowable psi range easily puts the reports of footballs of 11 psi (with a total drop of 1.5 psi) back into the realm of what we would expect from physics and falling 40-50 temperatures that night.

I know which I choose to believe.

I hear you. I never believed they were submitted at 13.5, which is why I made the post. Like you said, I think they were most likely pushing the minimum at 12.5.