Players and their ridiculous excuses for illegal hits

[Ring 6]

I am sure they said the same thing when they banned the clothesline, and stopped defenders from picking up QB's and slamming them on their head. You consider diving at a player's knee acceptable, i consider a cheapshot. That's my take and nothing is going to change it. It's a shame the Patriots didn't respond in kind and end his season.

He didn't dive at the players knees, he tackled him.
It happens many times in every game.

 

[Patsrock]

Re: Players and their ridiculous excuses for illegal hit

Was the tackle illegal by NFL rules? No it wasn't.

Just like Orpiks hit in the Bruins game that started that **** show wasn't illegal, this tackle wasn't.

I don't like it but not illegal

 

[manxman2601]

Sorry, Manx, but the replay shows the initial hit being Ward's shoulder on Gronk's knee. What happens after that is incidental.

Gronk wasn't hunched over when Ward hit him. So this idea that there was only a small target is BS. In fact, at the 15 second mark of the Highlights on NFL.com you can see, clear as day, that Ward's shoulder is what is connecting with Gronk's KNEE (not thigh, knee). everything else is the momentum of Gronk going over the top of Ward.

I'm rewatching the gif. Ward turns his back as he hits Gronk. His lower shoulder hits Gronk's knee but simultaneously, almost the whole of Ward's back hits Gronk's thigh.

Rob Gronkowski Suffers Leg Injury, Is Carted Off Field After Vicious Hit in Patriots-Brown Game (GIF) | New England Patriots | NESN.com

 

[Ring 6]

I have made my points in this thread, and I am 1005 confident in my opinons. Since it is getting contentious, in the spirit of Ian wishes to occur on this board, I will not post further, content that anyone wishing to see my opinion can read what I have posted so far. There is really nothing to add, and any further comment will just be a pointless argument that will go nowhere. Later.:rocker:

 

[Crononaut]

I seriously doubt anyone's knowledge of the game when they advocate that Ward should have gone higher. No offense to some of the posters here in saying that. DB's are taught to aim for the legs on bigger receivers and tight ends from a young age. There's a reason for that. Oh and Ward DID hit Gronk in the thigh. Look at the GIF. The knee injury was the unfortunate side effect of Gronk's foot being fully planted in the ground.

I will be the first to say I think it sucks that players are encouraged to go for the knees, but I agree with you that people might not be realizing what a freak play this was. If you watch the gif, Ward launches into him the exact moment his foot is FULLY planted (and all his weight is on the knee). Even worse, he hits Gronk at a point where Gronk's forward momentum over the planted foot has his leg fully extended (i.e. any hit at this point would hurt more than usual as at this point the knee has no 'give'). If the hit came a split second sooner or later and that knee was even slightly bent I still think he'd be injured, but probably not as severely. If it came a quarter of a second sooner or later when his foot was coming down or transferring weight to the other leg, I honestly don't think we're having any of these discussions today.

BB doesn't appear as understanding.

 

[DaBruinz]

You are proving that you are clueless on how fast the speed of the game is. It's hard enough for ward to be in the position to even make a play. How many times does gronk run a great route and no one is near him?

The idea that ward has enough time to size him up and intentionally aim at his knees is simply wrong. hes trying to hit a moving target that is 70 pounds heavier than him. Insanely hard to do.

Clearly you haven't seen the play or you wouldn't be spouting such BS.

First and foremost, Ward was nearly 10 yards off from Gronkowski when Brady let's the ball fly and Ward recognizes exactly where it's going. Ward is still 6 yards off when Gronk catches the ball. If you don't think 1.5 seconds is long enough to make the decision to go at a guy's knees you never played a fast moving sport in your life. Be it hockey, football, rugby or anything else.

It's not insanely hard to do. People do it on 1/4" steel blades every night at speeds as fast or even faster than what goes on in the NFL. And there are smaller/faster guys who knock over bigger/slower guys all the time. So, you'll forgive me if I disregard your argument.

 

[DaBruinz]

Perhaps Ward just watches tape

Gronk breaks a lot of tackles against the dolphins - YouTube

I'm all for Gronk being allowed an unfair advantage where no-one is allowed to tackle him below the waist but somehow I don't think the rest of the NFL will be that keen.

Who said anything about not tackling below the waist? There is a difference between hitting the knee, which is what the replay clearly shows, and hitting in the thigh area.

The NFL.COM replay clearly shows the hit at the :15 second mark being on the knee with the shoulder.

 

[Cookenbauer]

Clearly you haven't seen the play or you wouldn't be spouting such BS.

First and foremost, Ward was nearly 10 yards off from Gronkowski when Brady let's the ball fly and Ward recognizes exactly where it's going. Ward is still 6 yards off when Gronk catches the ball. If you don't think 1.5 seconds is long enough to make the decision to go at a guy's knees you never played a fast moving sport in your life. Be it hockey, football, rugby or anything else.

It's not insanely hard to do. People do it on 1/4" steel blades every night at speeds as fast or even faster than what goes on in the NFL. And there are smaller/faster guys who knock over bigger/slower guys all the time. So, you'll forgive me if I disregard your argument.

Played division 1 college soccer for 4 years. Not nearly as violent as the listed games...but I completely understand the difficulty of simply being in the right position. I've fouled and or been fouled many times in numerous fashion. And 99 percent of the time..it wasn't because the guy was trying to kick my ankles in purpose. It's because he was trying to make a play and the game is played at full speed.

This idea that you can make a perfect form tackle in football everytime is just absurd. It follows no logic whatsoever.

 

[manxman2601]

Who said anything about not tackling below the waist? There is a difference between hitting the knee, which is what the replay clearly shows, and hitting in the thigh area.

The NFL.COM replay clearly shows the hit at the :15 second mark being on the knee with the shoulder.

And where was the bulk of the contact?

I also note that neither you nor Ivan have commented on the much more blatant hit to the knee by the Patriot player. I am sure that neither of you are cherry picking your disgust based upon the colour of the uniform the respective players are wearing

 

[Ivan]

Re: Players and their ridiculous excuses for illegal hit

Was the tackle illegal by NFL rules? No it wasn't.

Just like Orpiks hit in the Bruins game that started that **** show wasn't illegal, this tackle wasn't.

I don't like it but not illegal

Just because something isn't called it doesn't mean it isn't a cheapshot, unless you feel the same way about Neal's knee to Marchand's head, that wasn't called either.

 

[DaBruinz]

Played division 1 college soccer for 4 years. Not nearly as violent as the listed games...but I completely understand the difficulty of simply being in the right position. I've fouled and or been fouled many times in numerous fashion. And 99 percent of the time..it wasn't because the guy was trying to kick my ankles in purpose. It's because he was trying to make a play and the game is played at full speed.

This idea that you can make a perfect form tackle in football everytime is just absurd. It follows no logic whatsoever.

Clearly you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking the BS you are.

No one said anything about expecting perfect form tackles every time. What you claimed is that Ward didn't have enough time to make the decision to go at Gronk's Thigh or waist vs. going at Gronk's knees. You were flat out wrong especially when those decisions are made in split seconds.

 

[PatsFan2]

Played division 1 college soccer for 4 years. Not nearly as violent as the listed games...but I completely understand the difficulty of simply being in the right position. I've fouled and or been fouled many times in numerous fashion. And 99 percent of the time..it wasn't because the guy was trying to kick my ankles in purpose. It's because he was trying to make a play and the game is played at full speed.

This idea that you can make a perfect form tackle in football everytime is just absurd. It follows no logic whatsoever.

My Brother broke another kids ankle on a routine tackle in pop warner should he be suspended Da Bruins?

 

[Deus Irae]

And where was the bulk of the contact?

I also note that neither you nor Ivan have commented on the much more blatant hit to the knee by the Patriot player. I am sure that neither of you are cherry picking your disgust based upon the colour of the uniform the respective players are wearing

Maybe this thread should be merged with the PI thread....

:ranger:

 

[DaBruinz]

And where was the bulk of the contact?

I also note that neither you nor Ivan have commented on the much more blatant hit to the knee by the Patriot player. I am sure that neither of you are cherry picking your disgust based upon the colour of the uniform the respective players are wearing

Where the "bulk of the contact" was doesn't matter because it was after the damage was done. I mean, Gronk's momentum took him in a somersault over Ward.

 

[DaBruinz]

My Brother broke another kids ankle on a routine tackle in pop warner should he be suspended Da Bruins?

Does your family ignore you? Is that why you insist on trolling and being stupid?

 

[Ivan]

And where was the bulk of the contact?

I also note that neither you nor Ivan have commented on the much more blatant hit to the knee by the Patriot player. I am sure that neither of you are cherry picking your disgust based upon the colour of the uniform the respective players are wearing

I never saw it but would say the same thing whether it was a Patriot or not, and I said the same things when Meriweather took out Todd Heap's head. I guess you guys felt the same way when the Titan blew up Rodney Harrison's knee. Just doing hsi job, nothing to see here folks just move along.

As Andy Johnson said I am completely confident in my position and I'm dropping it because I have no interest in a futile argument. Hopefully someday TJ Ward gets destroyed by somebody and loses his career, he deserves it.

 

[Patsrock]

Re: Players and their ridiculous excuses for illegal hit

Just because something isn't called it doesn't mean it isn't a cheapshot, unless you feel the same way about Neal's knee to Marchand's head, that wasn't called either.

Neal's knee to the head was called a penalty.

There is nothing to call on the Gronk tackle.

 

[fumbrunner]

Maybe guys need to learn to wrap up players in the "lower" target area rather than projecting themselves helmet/shoulder first. I agree that a 200 DB cannot be expected to hit a 260 lb TE in the midsection to try and tackle him. But wrap the guy up. You cant expect not to take out a knee if your head is down and you have no idea where you are projecting your body.

 

[A.C Vegas]

Re: Players and their ridiculous excuses for illegal hit

The Problem with the hit is not the hit itself it's the culture of the NFL right now it's the "big hits" that get noticed. they are far from fundimental hits. Players in High school are taught to aim for the waist with the shoulder try to put your helmet on the ball and use the hands and arms to lift and wrap. Watch a college game see how many time players go for the knees it is very rare. It is accually really bad to aim for the knees because if the player can see you coming it's a lot easier ot move a knee then it is to move your entire body to dodge a hit.

I hate all hits like that if it is against a patriot or done by a patriot. Football is a violent sport but if player would use their heads and what they were taught when they started the game then there would be fewer injuries

 

[Cookenbauer]

Clearly you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking the BS you are.

No one said anything about expecting perfect form tackles every time. What you claimed is that Ward didn't have enough time to make the decision to go at Gronk's Thigh or waist vs. going at Gronk's knees. You were flat out wrong especially when those decisions are made in split seconds.

Even if ward has the time to size him up...you act is if he has utter and complete precision control where he can always hit his intended target zone. It's just not possible...especially when that target is constantly moving and happens to be a freak of nature.

Your logic would imply that all helmet to helmet collisions would be avoided...but they aren't. You constantly see inadvertent contact because the receiver ducks or moves at the last second.

Ward knows he can't go high anymore...the nfl has made it clear. Ward did get fined numerous times in the past for going high. So he's going a little lower now. To say he can't go too low and only hit in the middle is asking too much.