Welcome to the New England Patriots, Safety Duron Harmon

[condon84]

Hopefully, you and the rest of the bandwagon riders will find another team du jour to root for. Feel free to leave early.

Well 1 good thing all the bandwagon fans will disappear,

When Brady retires is when fans like you guys will finally appreciate how good Brady is.

 

[VrabelJr]

Tavon Wilson II ~ The Revenge!!

It's gonna be amusing to watch In Bill We Trustees spin this one ~ as they spun the T Wilson Pick. :bricks:

Why does it need spin? Don't take things the draft so personally OTG.

In Bill We Trust.

 

[Gator Mike]

Tavon Wilson II ~ The Revenge!!

It's gonna be amusing to watch In Bill We Trustees spin this one ~ as they spun the T Wilson Pick. :bricks:

What was wrong with the Tavon Wilson pick? I thought he had a decent rookie season. Kid wasn't awful, or anything.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Tavon Wilson II ~ The Revenge!!

It's gonna be amusing to watch In Bill We Trustees spin this one ~ as they spun the T Wilson Pick. :bricks:

I think a fair assessment is that T. Wilson was not nearly as good a safety last year as, say, Rodney Harrison in his prime, nor was he nearly as bad a defensive back as, say, Duane Starks was during his time in New England.

 

[patsfan13]

When Brady retires is when fans like you guys will finally appreciate how good Brady is.

I had season tickets for the Pats when Schaffer Stadium opened, voted for J Smith in the Superfoot competition at the track, I have seen all the great QB's from the end of B Layne's and C Connerly's careers. I probably know far more about "how good Brady is" than you ever will sonny. :singing:


I have seen enough bad teams, ownership and coaching to not whine about BB.

 

[Off The Grid]

What was wrong with the Tavon Wilson pick? I thought he had a decent rookie season. Kid wasn't awful, or anything.

I think a fair assessment is that T. Wilson was not nearly as good a safety last year as, say, Rodney Harrison in his prime, nor was he nearly as bad a defensive back as, say, Duane Starks was during his time in New England.

1 ~ Nothing against drafting Wilson, though I wouldn't've made that move.

2 ~ My Problem with the move was wasting a 2nd Rounder on'm. :bricks:

3 ~ LaVonte David?? My Super Binky?? He would've come in very handy, last Year.

 

[Off The Grid]

Why does it need spin?

Don't take things the draft so personally OTG.

In Bill We Trust.

1 ~ I don't take things in the Draft "personally". You are clearly insane.

2 ~ In Bill you trust. Good Luck with blindly following others. Sounds like a rich, fulfilling life.

 

[Off The Grid]

Duron...#%&$ing...Harmon.

Jesus Christ.

 

[condon84]

I had season tickets for the Pats when Schaffer Stadium opened, voted for J Smith in the Superfoot competition at the track, I have seen all the great QB's from the end of B Layne's and C Connerly's careers. I probably know far more about "how good Brady is" than you ever will sonny. :singing:


I have seen enough bad teams, ownership and coaching to not whine about BB.

Yet you don't appreciate what he brings to the team. That's sad and pathetic at the same time.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Duron...#%&$ing...Harmon.

Jesus Christ.

Understand your exasperation. Getting Harmon with the Pats' own 3rd round pick at 91 (the pick that was offered to Pittsburgh for Sanders) -- that is a wasted pick. If BB loved Harmon, he could have signed the kid as an undrafted rookie free agent, and the kid who NO ONE knows, would have happily signed. But for BB to claim, Harmon represents good value at 91, is for him to be a bit disingenuous. NO TEAM was expected to draft him in the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th rounds. Most experts had him as a "priority free agent". Kipper had him as his 42nd ranked Safety for Pete's sake. How can it be GOOD "VALUE" when the Patriots could have in all likelihood, had him as an uncontested free agent signing for a $25,000 signing bonus. He may have a 3.8 gpa but last I checked that does not make him a good football player. If he came in as an undrafted player, he would then represent good value if he earned a roster spot based on TC competition. As it is, if Harmon is good value, BB is admitting Tavon Wilson (another unknown, he positioned as a "value pick" last year) was a mistake after his rookie year.

I'm sorry. I believe BB is a great coach. I believe he is a good GM. But I am not buying into investing a valuable 3rd round on an unknown when a number of attractive WRs like Bailey, Patton, Rodgers or any number of highly productive DL and OL are available.

Draft picks are a scarce commodity. When you use them to grab a 1st or 2nd round highly rated, productive players who fall to you in the late third round, that is a VALUE PICK. Picking someone who likely would have been undrafted in round 3-- that on draft day called A REACH (politely).

 

[DocHoliday]

Understand your exasperation. Getting Harmon with the Pats' own 3rd round pick at 91 (the pick that was offered to Pittsburgh for Sanders) -- that is a wasted pick. If BB loved Harmon, he could have signed the kid as an undrafted rookie free agent, and the kid who NO ONE knows, would have happily signed. But for BB to claim, Harmon represents good value at 91, is for him to be a bit disingenuous. NO TEAM was expected to draft him in the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th rounds. Most experts had him as a "priority free agent". Kipper had him as his 42nd ranked Safety for Pete's sake. How can it be GOOD "VALUE" when the Patriots could have in all likelihood, had him as an uncontested free agent signing for a $25,000 signing bonus. He may have a 3.8 gpa but last I checked that does not make him a good football player. If he came in as an undrafted player, he would then represent good value if he earned a roster spot based on TC competition. As it is, if Harmon is good value, BB is admitting Tavon Wilson (another unknown, he positioned as a "value pick" last year) was a mistake after his rookie year.

I'm sorry. I believe BB is a great coach. I believe he is a good GM. But I am not buying into investing a valuable 3rd round on an unknown when a number of attractive WRs like Bailey, Patton, Rodgers or any number of highly productive DL and OL are available.

Draft picks are a scarce commodity. When you use them to grab a 1st or 2nd round highly rated, productive players who fall to you in the late third round, that is a VALUE PICK. Picking someone who likely would have been undrafted in round 3-- that on draft day called A REACH (politely).

How do you know this? For all you know the Patriots heard of another team preparing to pick him up and decided to get him.

 

[Off The Grid]

Understand your exasperation. Getting Harmon with the Pats' own 3rd round pick at 91 (the pick that was offered to Pittsburgh for Sanders) -- that is a wasted pick. If BB loved Harmon, he could have signed the kid as an undrafted rookie free agent, and the kid who NO ONE knows, would have happily signed. But for BB to claim, Harmon represents good value at 91, is for him to be a bit disingenuous. NO TEAM was expected to draft him in the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th rounds. Most experts had him as a "priority free agent". Kipper had him as his 42nd ranked Safety for Pete's sake. How can it be GOOD "VALUE" when the Patriots could have in all likelihood, had him as an uncontested free agent signing for a $25,000 signing bonus. He may have a 3.8 gpa but last I checked that does not make him a good football player. If he came in as an undrafted player, he would then represent good value if he earned a roster spot based on TC competition. As it is, if Harmon is good value, BB is admitting Tavon Wilson (another unknown, he positioned as a "value pick" last year) was a mistake after his rookie year.

I'm sorry. I believe BB is a great coach. I believe he is a good GM. But I am not buying into investing a valuable 3rd round on an unknown when a number of attractive WRs like Bailey, Patton, Rodgers or any number of highly productive DL and OL are available.

Draft picks are a scarce commodity. When you use them to grab a 1st or 2nd round highly rated, productive players who fall to you in the late third round, that is a VALUE PICK. Picking someone who likely would have been undrafted in round 3-- that on draft day called A REACH (politely).

True Story.

Too many Patriot Fans think it's Blasphemy to say that Coach Bill screwed up.

Coach Bill is AWESOME.

But he IS Human.

And he DOES screw up.

Just ask Kevin OConnell.

...or Ryan Mallett.

...or Derick Burgess.

...or Ras I Dowling.

...or Tavon Wilson.

Coach Bill is the BEST.

He just isn't PERFECT.

And it's actually OK to say so.

 

[mgteich]

No one knows. That's why we look at all the ratings. We wouldn't call Harmon a possible 1st rounder talent. We know better. Please post any rating which showed Harmon in the 5th or earlier. Otherwise, this was a major reach who will make the 53 only because he is a 3rd rounder.

How do you know this? For all you know the Patriots heard of another team preparing to pick him up and decided to get him.

 

[Sciz]

Please post any rating which showed Harmon in the 5th or earlier.

Post any rating that means something that didn't have him in the top three rounds.

Oh wait, neither of us have any access to the ratings that mean anything.

 

[mgteich]

Ignore rating if you wish. In that case, are we to rely on your expert analysis of the quality of the player?

Post any rating that means something that didn't have him in the top three rounds.

Oh wait, neither of us have any access to the ratings that mean anything.

 

[NgataTroublemaker]

How do you know this? For all you know the Patriots heard of another team preparing to pick him up and decided to get him.

There are really only two explanations that make any sense, imo, regarding this pick at this spot considering you have another pick 11 spots later.

1) What you said above: They heard something or assigned a high probability that someone was going to take him very shortly after the 91st pick.

2) They didn't hear anything and didn't know if someone else was about to take him or not, but absolutely loved the guy to the point they decided they wanted to reduce a slight risk of missing him to zero risk of missing him.

One or the other has to be true, or they wasted, at minimum, 11 spots of value.

Obviously, there is longggg gap between the 102nd pick and the 226th pick where the guy might have been taken if you couldn't move around and grab him. But the 11 spots are what really puzzle me. Why take a guy at 91 when you can have him at 102, unless 1) or 2) above applies? No reason, so one of them had to have applied, now which one was it? I would bet on 2) more than 1), frankly.

 

[Sciz]

Ignore rating if you wish. In that case, are we to rely on your expert analysis of the quality of the player?

I trust that Belichick thinks he was the best player available, and that's good enough for me to give him a chance to step on the field before I start calling him a terrible pick.

 

[mgteich]

In a sense, it doesn't matter much for 2013. He will replace Ebner and likely be inactive. That's fine. The choice isn't a failure until year 3 or whenever he is cut. Dobson and Ryan can replace Ebner on special teams.

However, it is indeed a terrible pick in that he obviously could have been drafted at 102 and there were many better choices at 91.

I trust that Belichick thinks he was the best player available, and that's good enough for me to give him a chance to step on the field before I start calling him a terrible pick.

 

[Sciz]

However, it is indeed a terrible pick in that he obviously could have been drafted at 102 and there were many better choices at 91.

Clearly we have different definitions of the word "obviously."

 

[RobAllan]

There are really only two explanations that make any sense, imo, regarding this pick at this spot considering you have another pick 11 spots later.

1) What you said above: They heard something or assigned a high probability that someone was going to take him very shortly after the 91st pick.

2) They didn't hear anything and didn't know if someone else was about to take him or not, but absolutely loved the guy to the point they decided they wanted to reduce a slight risk of missing him to zero risk of missing him.

One or the other has to be true, or they wasted, at minimum, 11 spots of value.

Obviously, there is longggg gap between the 102nd pick and the 226th pick where the guy might have been taken if you couldn't move around and grab him. But the 11 spots are what really puzzle me. Why take a guy at 91 when you can have him at 102, unless 1) or 2) above applies? No reason, so one of them had to have applied, now which one was it? I would bet on 2) more than 1), frankly.

I've watched, like many others, these type of draft moves before. (This one quite being possibly the worst, in value terms.) I used to believe, as do you, that #1 or #2 must be true. Since we can only speculate, I will share that I now believe a 3rd thing instead-

Draft position still has a lot to do with contract/money. And the Pats, more than any other team, control the contracts of their players based on their guesstimate of the market value of the player. So I think some of these reaches are BB speculating that a player is going to contribute at "x" level and so they draft the person based on what they expect the final contract tender/value to be. (This is the same reasoning, I think, that causes them to give guys multi-year contracts early and also be a little petty/stingy toward the end of careers. I also think this is the same reasoning that led to the Welker incident this year.)

If my gut feeling hunch about this is correct, I still think Kraft should be stepping in and reminding BB that the value of the pick is not equal to the value of the final contribution. That is the case when talking about trade value of picks, which is why I think BB is so good with that. But I suspect the man simply doesn't change gears when USING the pick. He might even think to do so would be illogical. The problem is that nobody else is "flattening" the data that way.

Anyway, it's just a guess. But since we aren't in the war rooms that's all anybody does anyway. And I really do think this is what is going on with the Pats. I think it's a real case of the thing that makes them great at hoarding draft picks and managing player salaries is the very same thing that causes BB to make stupid draft-day reaches.