The greatest quarterback ever?

[BananaRepublican]

Both criteria are in and of themselves insufficient. .

Ok, I see where you are going, and I find that totally acceptable. I did not read Breer. Frankly all those "best ever" articles seem vapid to me. But if somebody is willing to do the heavy lifting by factoring in all of the factors I find that palatable compared to the "3-2 is better than 4-0" mentality with wins or appearances being the only criterion.

 

[Creative Username]

Ok, I see where you are going, and I find that totally acceptable. I did not read Breer. Frankly all those "best ever" articles seem vapid to me. But if somebody is willing to do the heavy lifting by factoring in all of the factors I find that palatable compared to the "3-2 is better than 4-0" mentality with wins being the only criterion.

Well even if wins are the only criterion...
As someone mentioned earlier, if you factor in Conference Championships (which in my book are just as important because you effectively lose the Superbowl if you lose the Conference Championship.)
Montana and Brady are both 8-3
Just something to think about.

 

[BananaRepublican]

It's true, but the Patriots also had their share of luck winning the first three. I mean, the tuck play, beating the Steelers in that AFCCG on two special teams TDs (one on a blocked FG return for a TD...how often does *that* happen?), Kasay kicking the ball out of bounds for Carolina, a lot of things went right for the Patriots in the early 2000's. They could have zero just as easily as they could have six.

You have pointed out a most important angle to this. Luck has a lot to do with a lot of things. And I don't diss on luck either. Brady got lucky, Eli got lucky, even Bart Starr got lucky when that Dallas DT couldn't get traction on that QB sneak. Luck has to happen to somebody.

The question is how to get on the right side of luck? See, Dan Marino never did and that becomes a big problem for a lot of people who are as skilled as possible.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Ok, I see where you are going, and I find that totally acceptable. I did not read Breer. Frankly all those "best ever" articles seem vapid to me. But if somebody is willing to do the heavy lifting by factoring in all of the factors I find that palatable compared to the "3-2 is better than 4-0" mentality with wins or appearances being the only criterion.

If you read more you may find you have to think less. Overthinking is in and of itself a detriment to clarity.

Borges has a piece up this AM on Brady's mindset following another cutdown weekend. It hits on many of his unique traits one of which is the ability to compartmentalize things that often change the way most players feel about the game and all it demands over time. The other is his ability to manage or handle those situations as they occur be they at home, on the field, in the locker room or over the course of the offseason. Those are among the intangible traits that allowed him to arrive here to begin with, and he came by them naturally, and they make his ability to remain here uniquely his.

This offseason was the first in a number of years that Brady wasn’t surgically repaired or rehabbing broken or dented parts. A knee, a foot, a shoulder, a hand. Tune-ups one year, major rehab another. Such wear and tear can break the spirit as well as the body, but Brady has avoided that because the game has never become a burden to him.

Football remains his fascination and his obsession. For many professional athletes that can wane with the years, and when it does, focus is lost, and soon after, so is your job. It is the nature of the beast he rides 16-to-20 Sundays a year. It demands everything or leaves you with nothing.

“Physical skills have never been my strong suit anyway, so I don’t have to worry too much about that,” Brady said with a laugh. “In terms of quarterbacking, the physical aspect of it is you have to be able to throw with enough velocity that guys don’t have to be wide-open for you to complete a pass, but speed has never been part of my position. It’s not like other positions where if you lose that you’re in trouble.

“The ability to throw accurately is extremely important and I don’t think that will ever go away. I’ve found ways to take care of my legs, my arm and my head. I believe anybody can make good plays. It’s how many bad plays do you make? When the play is not there, what did I do?

“It’s never been easy for me so I don’t know what it means to take a film session off. I never did that, so when I’m asked if I get bored, I don’t have an answer. It’s not like I’ve got it all figured out. If you think that, it’s probably a sign of the end. Then the game passes you by.

“But I’ve never really had any other interests. It’s not like I have another career planned. It’s not like I have hobbies. I’ve loved this since I was 8. I feel very fortunate to have found it.

“I think it’s interesting that as an athlete everyone is lumped together. People say, ‘This is the lifespan of an athlete,’ but that’s only if the process is the same for every athlete. If mine is different, why is the result going to be the same? I’ve never approached it like everyone else. My process is mine.

“People ask me about the sacrifices you have to make but they aren’t sacrifices to me because I love the preparation. I love the process.

Keep feeling fascination - BostonHerald.com

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

If you read more you may find you have to think less. Overthinking is in and of itself a detriment to clarity.

Borges has a piece up this AM on Brady's mindset following another cutdown weekend. It hits on many of his unique traits one of which is the ability to compartmentalize things that often change the way most players feel about the game and all it demands over time. The other is his ability to manage or handle those situations as they occur be they at home, on the field, in the locker room or over the course of the offseason. Those are among the intangible traits that allowed him to arrive here to begin with, and he came by them naturally, and they make his ability to remain here uniquely his.


Keep feeling fascination - BostonHerald.com

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but anyone else impressed with how much more cerebral Brady has become the last couple of years? To me the guy has come up with a ton of insightful, positive quotes about being your best, leadership, motivation... It's like we've watched the guy grow from the "kid" who was always awkward and slightly stumbling in front of a mic into this wise elder statesman who dispenses these nuggets on quarterbacking excellence with ease.

 

[lurker1965]

Pity the NFL does not know its own history. Sammy Baugh - even though he had a full back number, 33 - was the best QB in history.

Before him we have 4 man back fields like in that three stooges episode. Any one of which might pass it.

After him (and Sid Luckman's great season in Chicago) it was three man back fields and the QB was primarily a passer, not another RB who might pass.

I like Brady, but he did not redefine the position.

Oh did I mention that was when they went both ways? Baugh led the league one year in interceptions caught when he played as a safety.

 

[Off The Grid]

Post merger the only two guys to talk about are Montana and Brady.

Pre merger it's probably: Otto Graham...

For The Win, Brother BagWell!! :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

Throwing a football in and of itself is meaningless. There is no point to it in a vacuum. Its only meaning is in the context of a football game, where success is measured in the smaller sense of catches, first downs, and touchdowns and in the larger sense of winning games, divisions, and championships. I agree it is a herculean task to try to separate the performance from the individual from that of the team, but really that is all we are left with.

I think its pretty meaningless to try to measure someones greatness by evaluating the components of performance that didn't result in success. It's like trying to measure the greatness of a painter that never created a masterpiece but has great individual brush strokes.

By that sense, I can't see how anyone could ever say that Marino, Tarkenton, Moon or Cunningham even approached the GOAT when they were never a part of greatness.

Exquisite.

I need to start reading your BackFile, Brother B.

WTF does "BSR" stand for, anyway??

 

[Off The Grid]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but anyone else impressed with how much more cerebral Brady has become the last couple of years?

Uh....NO.

Brady's entire greatness has been about two things.

Two things.

1 ~ His Passion.

2 ~ His Great Mind.

Brady has always been cerebral.

 

[lurker1965]

Since SBs are a team accomplishment how do you plan to apportion the QB's contributions? How would you do that for the 2000 Ravens?

OK, Banana you can offer to pay me for the education later -Everyone else, this is a long post you might want to pass over. Your loss, but...

The QB, while not being able to singlehandedly win a game, can single handedly lose it.

While, say a RG can be a turnstile and allow a sack, two or three in a row generally get him replaced.

A QB that throw a bad incompletion followed by another and another probably will not (See Tim Tebow and other back up QBs thrust into play last year - I forget their names. Chicago had a really bad one.)

Although a CB can get burned late in a game and "lose" it, the argument that all 53 let it be close enough to matter is valid.

A QB can drag down his team for a whole game. No other position can say that. If Sergio Brown shows he can't play safety, we'll try Ighedebo (sp?) A QB has games to screw up, when has a really dreadful Line Backer got to start back to back games?

Oh, Dilfer's "skill" was not having to be "the man." Could you see, say Marino, subsuming his ego and letting Ray Lewis be a bigger star than him?

 

[Bassman]

When and if Brady ever leads his team down the field to score the game winning TD in a Super Bowl with less than a minute to go I'll consider him better than Starr or Montana.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Uh....NO.

Brady's entire greatness has been about two things.

Two things.

1 ~ His Passion.

2 ~ His Great Mind.

Brady has always been cerebral.

You're correct. I used the wrong word.

I was talking about his ability as a wordsmith. But, um, since I'm not the all-time greatest wordsmith myself, I...can't think of the right word!

 

[scout]

Pity the NFL does not know its own history. Sammy Baugh - even though he had a full back number, 33 - was the best QB in history.

Before him we have 4 man back fields like in that three stooges episode. Any one of which might pass it.

After him (and Sid Luckman's great season in Chicago) it was three man back fields and the QB was primarily a passer, not another RB who might pass.

I like Brady, but he did not redefine the position.

Oh did I mention that was when they went both ways? Baugh led the league one year in interceptions caught when he played as a safety.

I always reserve respect for gone-by eras, as the perception is that those athletes could not compete with today's. I always think of Russell in basketball whenever I hear the "yea buts".

 

[Jetssuck]

When and if Brady ever leads his team down the field to score the game winning TD in a Super Bowl with less than a minute to go I'll consider him better than Starr or Montana.

Maybe when Brady has like Montana 3:10 left on the game clock and not 29 and 57 seconds he'll lead his team down the field to score the winning td in the Super Bowl. The only playoff game that Montana got the ball with less than a minute to go with a chance to tie or go ahead was the 1983 NFC Championship when he threw a game ending interception.

 

[Deus Irae]

When and if Brady ever leads his team down the field to score the game winning TD in a Super Bowl with less than a minute to go I'll consider him better than Starr or Montana.

TD/FG, it's the same thing in the end. It's the game winning score. Brady's been there and done that.

You may now consider him better than Starr and Montana.

 

[Linda_The_Pats_Fan (She was NEM)]

Albert Breer‏@AlbertBreer

Just flipped on Big Ten Network, and 2000 Orange Bowl is on, Brady's final game at UofM. Watch it, and you'll wonder how scouts missed on TB.


Wish I had it just for that. But I already know how scouts missed on TB. Perceptions and pre conceived notions about what succeeds at the next level.

Here is the link to the second half and the overtime of that game.
Am I allowed to post this here??
2000 Orange Bowl: Michigan vs. Alabama 2nd Half - YouTube

 

[Kid~Brady]

When and if Brady ever leads his team down the field to score the game winning TD in a Super Bowl with less than a minute to go I'll consider him better than Starr or Montana.

This is the only factor that determines whether someone is better than another?

 

[stcjones]

I think that unless Brady wins 1-2 more SBs ( which unfortunately I don't see him doing) he will NOT be in the discussion of GOAT. Brady (and Pats) gave WASTED alot of opportunities since 04...and that has to be taken into consideration. I think if he wins 1 more he would be considered if not..
No Way....Montana will probably still be considered GOAT by most...

 

[Creative Username]

I personally think he's already the best ever.
Wouldn't be debatable if he hadn't lost to Derpy Manning twice.
But you look at his stats over his career and they're nearly all top five, and he says he still has 6 years left. And he has brought home the hardware. So he's got stats and rings on his side, with plenty of time to add to both. How many guys can you say have three rings and 300 TD passes? 1.
How many guys have multiple rings and a career passer rating of above 95? 1.
Efficiency and consistency throughout his whole career, not to mention he knows how to hang on to the ball (14 INTs is his season high).
And he is the only QB in history with two seasons of above 110 passer rating.
1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Baugh
5. P. Manning

 

[PatsWSB47]

I think that unless Brady wins 1-2 more SBs ( which unfortunately I don't see him doing) he will NOT be in the discussion of GOAT. Brady (and Pats) gave WASTED alot of opportunities since 04...and that has to be taken into consideration. I think if he wins 1 more he would be considered if not..
No Way....Montana will probably still be considered GOAT by most...

Why don't you see him doing it?