Felger: Pats moving to a more "aggressive" scheme?

[AJY the Jets troll]

The reason none of the young guys have stepped up is because they're all under the shadow of what this team was before they arrived. They have never won anything and BB doesn't exactly encourage his young players swagger.

The young guys feel tight and more scared to make a mistake than anxious to make a play.

There are a lot of young guys with potential but most are too young to make much of a difference this year.

As far as changing to a more attacking defense, I'll believe it when I see it. For evidence all you have to do is look at Devin Mccourty, he's physical but he's made more for a zone defense not a man up type of guy that allows us to send more blitzers. Rex Ryan has said they had Kyle Wilson ahead of Mcourty because he's a man up corner but if he ran NE's defense he would've taken Mccourty too, he fits the defense that we have run for a decade. I don't see BB changing, he's too proud.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I understand their defense is young, but I haven't seen a young player with any swagger. In fact, most of them don't look very confident at all. All I see them do is look around and wait for something to happen. This defense needs an attitude and until they show that, they won't go very far in the playoffs.

Attitude? Wait until you see Spikes. I think any attitude issue will be over when he is on the field. Wish they could bring Bryan Cox and Rodney back as coaches.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

What the Patriots still don't have is an Enforcer in the defensive backfield. Receivers can prance around like prissy debutantes back there without a worry in the world. It was different with Rodney on the field. Maybe Chung can bring it because nobody else is. Another issue is interceptions; when Ty Law and Assante were playing it was very dangerous to throw against the Patriots. Not anymore. It is a low-risk proposition against the Patriots's stone-handed DBs.

 

[Deus Irae]

The reason none of the young guys have stepped up is because they're all under the shadow of what this team was before they arrived. They have never won anything and BB doesn't exactly encourage his young players swagger.

Do an exercise for yourself. List all 11 defensive positions and then list which of those 11 have had any upgrades over the 2003-2007 (ish) cast. Here's the list to start with:

NT - Washington/Wilfork
DE - Warren
DE - Seymour
OLB - Colvin/Thomas
OLB - Vrabel
ILB - Bruschi
ILB- Johnson/Seau
CB - Law/Samuel
CB - Samuel/Hobbs
S - Harrison
S - Wilson

The problem's been a talent issue, not some fear of BB's wrath.

 

[Water Boy]

Their defense almost lost them all 3 of those super bowls and finally cracked in '07.

WTF? Are you seriously going to blame the '07 Superbowl loss on the defense?

 

[woolster22]

What the Patriots still don't have is an Enforcer in the defensive backfield. Receivers can prance around like prissy debutantes back there without a worry in the world. It was different with Rodney on the field. Maybe Chung can bring it because nobody else is. Another issue is interceptions; when Ty Law and Assante were playing it was very dangerous to throw against the Patriots. Not anymore. It is a low-risk proposition against the Patriots's stone-handed DBs.

I thought Mcgowan did a pretty good job of throwing his body around last season, nothing like Rodney, but a step in the right direction. Bodden has stone-hands? Granted Sanchise inflated the INT numbers a bit, but I'd say he's a solid corner. Butler shows promise, we'll see if he can step it up a bit this year. Then theres the McCourty. DB's are looking to the strong point of the D since god know's when. You putting the LB's (who's playing outside?), or the DL (ends?) ahead of them? Chung certainly showed a bit of promise, and Merriweather was for some unknown reason in the Pro-Bowl. He's good, but certaintly not that good. Time will tell. Going to be an interesting offseason to say the least.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't see how the defense could possibly get much more aggressive than it was last season. As has been mentioned, we were a top blitzing defense in the league last season. Now if Felger means that we're moving to more of a one gap scheme than I wouldn't mind that either. I like the one gap 3-4, personally. Regardless of what Reiss saw and what Felger is talking about, the defense should see quite a bit more wrinkles with Belichick firmly in charge this season. I'm excited to see what the finished product is.

The single most important factor over this period will be how many of their draft picks pan out. The Pats had four selections in the second round in 2009 (Patrick Chung, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Sebastian Vollmer). They had a first (Devin McCourty) and three seconds (Rob Gronkowski, Jermaine Cunningham, Brandon Spikes) in 2010. They have two firsts next year. If a title-contending core doesn't emerge out of that group, it's over.

This is the best quote in the entire article. We really hung a lot on these last two drafts. Hopefully this plays out to be a vital chunk of a championship roster.

 

[Patspsycho]

This is a good point to bring up. However 2-gap has nothing to do with blitz schemes because those schemes are pre-determined, and called in the defensive huddle before the snap. You don't read and react on a stunt or scoop, for example, you just launch at the snap.

My mistake. It just seems that when the Patriots bring an extra rusher they do the same thing way too often. They have their 3 big lineman try to tie up a bunch of offensive lineman, which frees up two guys on the outside with one on one matchups. But these guys weren't even able to win those one on one matchups most of the time. That's where if you have a stud OLB like Ware or Merriman when he was healthy, you can win those one on one matchups a good chunk of the time and force them to double you, which, in turn, opens things up for the other guys.

Since the Pats don't have one of those types of guys, I think they need to rely on more penetration and stunting with the DL for when they aren't blitzing. I like the idea of trying to get into the backfield and blowing the play up before it even has time to develop. It's more effective, especially on a passing play, than having to first engage your blocker, read pass, and then try to get to the QB. And it obviously works pretty well against the run too with the way the Ravens had been so good against the run with Rex's scheme. No RB had a 100+ yard game on them for a few years. Pretty ridiculous.

I think that in terms of defense, the value of having monster OLB pass-rusher is overrated. We never really had one, and most certainly didn't have one during the early part of the previous decade. What that defense had, more than anything else was a nose for the ball, great team instinct, and a swagger and confidence that hit you right in the face. It was the confidence of a defense that knew that it could make the big play when it had to. The closest analogy I can draw to is to talk about how much I used to hate Kevin McHale- the way he played, the way he ran down the court. It was so arrogant, yet it was deserving. He felt like he wasn't meant to lose, and he simply didn't for the most part. It is just that mentality, the way you carry yourself, the way you perceive the game.

I refer you to this top-notch analysis written by Jays52, a number of months ago. I hope that he will not mind me reproducing it here:

Happy New Years, all. I've had the d on my mind throughout the entire season. I was probably over optimistic at times, but I still think that it was the strongest part of the team this year. I have been impressed with their ability to get off the field when needed. I have been impressed with their ability to dial up the blitz. I have been most impressed by some of the creativity behind the plays and sets.

Overall, I think that this is an extremely skilled squad. I think that the "lack of a pass rush" thing is just an easy term for the uneducated to throw out there. The fact of the matter is that a weak pass rush isn't a new problem for the Patriots. 08 was probably the worst year, with 07 being quite close as well. At least this season the team has the horses to run the race. This is the first season in quite a few years that the team has legitimate NFL speed on defense. If you have the speed to get to the QB, you can actually send people. Scheme can compensate for lack of an elite edge rusher, and we are seeing more and more blitzing from this team. This is indicative of the players getting what the coaches are trying to do, and the coaches trusting their players ability to reach the QB.

While I certainly think that a legit pass rusher (in additon to another serviceable TBC type) is needed, I think that too much emphasis is placed upon the OLB in the 34 getting your heat. Let's consider pass protection schemes. At it's most basic, pass blocking schemes are set up as a "mug" protection. Often, you hear the "cup" protection, but it is more of a "mug". Cup protection forms a semi-circle pocket, mug protection has the guards and center staying more stout in their protection, as the tackles bring the ends upfield. This facilitates sliding much better than cup protection schemes. Too much emphasis is placed on edge rushers simply beating a tackle, end, or back (usually a combination) and getting a shot on the QB as he hits his hitch step. Largely, Belichick was responsible for this line of thought with the way he utilized the real LT. It really is much more than that, though. Pass rush is primarily about taking away avenues of escape. Be it sliding, throwing lanes, or hot reads, the rush needs to take these away to be effective. As an example, take a look at the best pocket slider in the NFL, #12. He is extremely tough to get after because he understands where the pressure is coming from, where in the pocket he can move to, and where his help is. When Brady is pressured effectively, teams understand how he moves. He has an initial slide, usually caused by an edge guy getting upfield. Brady then slides towards the B gap and uses the forward momentum of his step to deliver a strike either downfield or to a zone vacated by an extra rusher. When he is taken down, the defense beats a guard or center and puts a guy directly into the slide. This is accomplished by interior rush. The inverse of this situation is also true. Inside rush can also flush a QB into an end. We are seeing this type of complimentary pass rush from the Patriots recently. They understand how QB's move in the pocket and take advantage of it. The safeties and ILB's are becoming highly proficient rushers, and it is showing more and more on the field as the inside rush becomes a halmark of this Patriots team. Yes, they do need an elite edge guy to create a true swarm, but they are compensating quite well.

As we're on the topic of defending the pass, let's talk about the secondary. I've been the biggest Bodden cheerleader since the beginning of the season, and he's made the fandom worth it. He doesn't get a lot of credit, but he is playing at an extremely high level. He is one of the best press corners I have seen in a long time. He is highly effective with his jam. He is fluid in his backpedal, side stride, and sprint. He also can play zone extremely well. He drives well off of his plant foot, and is the surest tackler in the secondary. The safety play is well known, so there is really no need to dive into that. We all know how good the young group of safeties is, and I think that Chung is going to become an elite SS in the league. Butler is progressing nicely, and I think that he is going to develop quite well. He is clearly a great athlete, has excellent ball skills, and I am pleasently suprised by his willingness to throw his body around. A major component of the championship Patriot defenses was a swarming, physical, opportunistic secondary that could stick across the board. This unit is moving towards this level rapidly.

The backers need some help. Mayo is playing out of position in the base 34, and when compounded with the injury, his play is suffering significantly. He is a cornerstone 34 Will. He needs a Mike to play next to in order to create an elite ILB corps. Guyton is a good young player, but he is much better suited to passing situations and pursuit than he is a run player. He can't get off of blocks well, and he can't stone momentum at the NFL level. Mayo is better than Guyton in this regard, but he is still a better sideline to sideline player than a complete Mike. This is probably the most significant position of need in the front seven. It can be adressed in the draft, and maybe McKenzie is that guy. The team desperately needs a guard destroyer, more so than they need a beast Sam or Jack. Passing on Jason Phillips still stings.

The D-Line needs Wilfork for the long term. He is the best nose in the game right now, and extending him is of tremendous importance. Warren is still a great player, and likely one of the most stout defenders in the league. His game is elevating lately as well. He is becoming pretty heady out there with his recognition and improvisation, and this should continue to improve. I think that if Green leaves, the team needs a replacement. Brace isn't the guy, he's a backup nose. He lacks the length to play the outside techniques, but I do think that people are far too hard on him. I'm optimistic on Brace, as nose at the professional level is extremely challenging until technique is mastered. He has the foundation, his challenge is to expand upon it. Pryor isn't the guy, either. He's a solid depth guy who can provide a blow for the starters when needed. He isn't going to be more than that. Wright could start on most NFL lines, and is a solid player overall. Highly active for a guy his size, has tremendous footwork and hand technique, plays the run well. They do need to secure a long term replacement for Seymour, though.

I think that the offense can't decide what it wants to be, and is too predictable to cary the team in the tournament. There are going to be games when the defense needs to win it. As the adage goes, defense wins championships. Is this unit elite? No, but they do have the athleticism and versitility to execute a BB scheme. I haven't felt this way in quite a while. Come playoff time, I'll take an undervalued defense with the ability to execute the gameplans of the greatest defensive mind in history of the game anytime. The offense will need to play well enough to allow the D some breathers, but I feel that this unit, for the first time in five years, can win a championship for the Patriots. Have at me.

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[PatsFan37]

The backers need some help. Mayo is playing out of position in the base 34, and when compounded with the injury, his play is suffering significantly. He is a cornerstone 34 Will. He needs a Mike to play next to in order to create an elite ILB corps. Guyton is a good young player, but he is much better suited to passing situations and pursuit than he is a run player. He can't get off of blocks well, and he can't stone momentum at the NFL level. Mayo is better than Guyton in this regard, but he is still a better sideline to sideline player than a complete Mike. This is probably the most significant position of need in the front seven. It can be adressed in the draft, and maybe McKenzie is that guy. The team desperately needs a guard destroyer, more so than they need a beast Sam or Jack. Passing on Jason Phillips still stings.

If I may quote Jays52 as well, he said this before they drafted Spikes and I believe (FWIW) that McKenzie is still very much a part of that picture. TJ, Vrabel, and AD all talked about how tough that SILB position is, taking on guards all day. I like very much that there are two guys with the size and strength to play alongside Mayo. Spikes has instincts and McKenzie has speed.

I realize it's not a 3-down position, but neither is NT. Just as it's essential that the team develop guys like Brace to help Wilfork with the pounding from double-teams, I like that they've got two legitimate contenders (we hope!) at a position that requires guys to take on and shed opponents who have 40 or 50 pounds on them.

 

[JoeShmoe]

The Patriots' defensive problems were personnel-based, not schematic in nature. The defense was able to hold teams to the 5th fewest points in the NFL last season, despite having a subpar defensive roster. That's actually a pretty good job being done by the defensive coaching staff.

I agree with Deus ( for once!)

Last year the personnel wasnt there and we were reliant on rookies, vets in their first year in the scheme and little leadership

Now we have 3 potentially starting CB's, a proper SS if Chung can step up, Burgess in his second year, Mayo back fit and a good mix at ILB of thumpers and coverage guys. If Brace steps up we have backup for Vince. Remains to be seen if this group gels as we hope it does but if if so then I hope to see them execute a lot of complex defensive schemes we run

 

[DarrylS]

I agree with Deus ( for once!)

Last year the personnel wasnt there and we were reliant on rookies, vets in their first year in the scheme and little leadership

Now we have 3 potentially starting CB's, a proper SS if Chung can step up, Burgess in his second year, Mayo back fit and a good mix at ILB of thumpers and coverage guys. If Brace steps up we have backup for Vince. Remains to be seen if this group gels as we hope it does but if if so then I hope to see them execute a lot of complex defensive schemes we run

Pretty much my beliefs as well, in the past a reliance on a patchwork secondary has proven folly, and this whole area is much improved.. out MLB's seem more stout, our DL is about the same, our OLB's about the same.. overall with the improvement(on paper at least) for our strengths bodes well.

Wonder how Zoltan fits into this, as this may also lead to less punt runbacks in the past or crappy kicks.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Most people who aren't really looking at what's happening think their favorite team is being too passive. It's the way of things. People who aren't really focused on the play miss the subtleties. The same thing happens in basketball and hockey. One can be aggressive while playing in a 2-gap system. It's simply that the aggression is channeled differently.



You are absolutely correct here, which is my point about personnel rather than scheme. When personnel sucks ass, scheme can still get you wins against inferior opponents. Once you start playing the big boys, though, lack of talent gets exposed. It wasn't scheme that had players falling down and running into each other. It was players and their inability to execute.



You've got the wrong guy here. I was talking about the team pissing away the season pretty much from the moment of the Seymour trade. Again, though, that was about personnel, not scheme.



Is it possible that Pees failed to maximize the abilities of the players? Sure.

Is it possible that BB's help (and he was clearly working with the defense) was insufficient in its attempt to maximize the abilities of the players? Sure.

However, given that Pees had been able to get pretty good play out of the defenses before, and given that BB is arguably the best defensive coach in the history of the game, isn't it more likely that the biggest problem was simply that losing players like Bruschi, Vrabel, Seymour, Seau and Harrison, and Mayo coming down with an injury, left the cupboard pretty bare, since the replacements were lesser players and/or rookies facing the expected learning curve?

I just see the 2-gap as a more "passive" defense in general. Everything you read on the 2-gap (aka Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4) stresses that it is a more conservative style of defense with an emphasis on keeping the play in front of you and "bending but not breaking" rather than risk taking. Everything you read on the the 1-gap (aka Phillips 3-4) stresses that is a more aggressive and penetration based defense. Almost any article/write-up you read will state that the Phillips is a more aggressive scheme than the Fairbanks-Bulloughs due to its philosophy of shooting gaps to try to get into the backfield to blow the play up before it develops. That's the difference that I'm talking about, not the # of times they brought more than 4 rushers. I've just always preferred the 1-gap. I've never been a big fan of read and react defense. Even before he was the Jets coach, I loved the way Rex Ryan schemed on defense. It's just a personal preference.

I do agree with you that the personnel was lacking. It is virtually impossible to replace all of the guys we have lost over the past fews. But unlike you, I don't think that was the only issue. I do think the 2-gap is a little outdated in this NFL where you've got 10 QB's throwing for over 4,000 yards and passing becoming more and more prevalent on early downs. I think the 1-gap is a more conducive to defending in the modern NFL. I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the better defenses have been 1-gap defenses. Spags with the Giants, Jim Johnson with the Eagles, Wade Phillips with SD and Dallas, Rex Ryan with NYJ and Baltimore, LeBeau with Pitt, Capers with GB, etc. Belichick's defense isn't obsolete, but I personally feel some of these other schemes are better.

How many teams are still running the classic Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4? Chiefs, Browns, Dolphins, Pats? All the guys from the Parcells-Belichick coaching tree? More and more teams have gone with the 1-gap 3-4.

I think one of the best examples is the Jets defense. They ran the 2-gap under Mangini two years ago and were no where near a top flight defense. Rex comes in with more or less the same group of guys and the defense becomes the "best" in the game. Did the signing of a guy like Bart Scott really make or break them being a #1 D? The acquisition of the bum Lito Sheppard certainly didn't help. Do the Jets have any "monster" OLB's?

That's where the "it's a lack of personnel" argument comes in and that's why I disagree. Ryan took what many looked at as an average group of personnel and made it look/play the part of an elite defense. That's just one of the reasons I think the Pats problems stem more from just a lack of personnel.

People like to blame Pees as the scapegoat, and I'm responsible for doing it myself at times, but in reality, he was still running Belichick's defense. Yes losing rocks like Bruschi, Harrison, etc. was detrimental to this team, but again, I don't think it was the only issue.

We could debate this back and forth all day, but we're likely never going to see eye to eye on this topic. Let's just agree to disagree on the scheme implications.

Overall, I'm happy that BB is taking a more hands on approach with the defense. I'm still concerned about the pass rush though, whether it be the personnel, scheme, or a combination of both.

 

[PatsFan37]

I just see the 2-gap as a more "passive" defense in general. Everything you read on the 2-gap (aka Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4) stresses that it is a more conservative style of defense with an emphasis on keeping the play in front of you and "bending but not breaking" rather than risk taking. Everything you read on the the 1-gap (aka Phillips 3-4) stresses that is a more aggressive and penetration based defense. Almost any article/write-up you read will state that the Phillips is a more aggressive scheme than the Fairbanks-Bulloughs due to its philosophy of shooting gaps to try to get into the backfield to blow the play up before it develops. That's the difference that I'm talking about, not the # of times they brought more than 4 rushers. I've just always preferred the 1-gap. I've never been a big fan of read and react defense. Even before he was the Jets coach, I loved the way Rex Ryan schemed on defense. It's just a personal preference.

I prefer the two-gap 3-4 because of the pressure it puts on precision-passing, big play offenses like the Colts. Guys like Peyton Manning can kill a penetrating offense with their ability to pick up the blitz and burn you deep. They look for those moments.

The one-gap is a risk-taking defense. It gambles that it can force a 3-and-out right now. That increasing the chance of an interception is worth the risk of a 40-yard catch-and-run by Dallas Clark.

The two-gap forces a team like the Colts to drive the length of the field, playing the odds that if they're out there for 10 plays they have 10 chances to throw an interception or go 3-and-out. It forces the Colts out of their game and into grinding out 4 and 5 yards at a time, running the ball at a team that excels at stopping the run.

In the AFC, getting to the big dance means beating the Colts. Winning the big dance means beating the Saints. As much the Patriots struggled with both those teams last year, that was a lack of talent against the Colts and poor coaching against the Saints, not scheme.

I still like the odds of a 3-4 two-gap defense slowing down the big-play offenses. But it requires a talented, physical, tough and well-conditioned team. These last two drafts have gone a long way toward that goal.

 

[patfanken]

Sack totals aren't everything. Just from watching the two teams, the Jets were MUCH more disruptive and adept at getting after the QB than the Pats

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See point 4 where I explicitly mention this

I honestly think if the Jets had Cromartie instead of Lito/Lowery last year, they would've given the Colts all they could handle in the AFC Championship game. The only thing that killed them in that game was the lack of a somewhat decent CB opposite Revis.

Why the Props to Cromartie? when in the last 2 seasons have you seen ANY indication that Cromartie is any better than an average CB. And have you seen the guy tackle. HE DOESN'T. He makes Deon Sanders look like **** Butkis

I think some of those stats are fools gold. If you look at Brady's stats, it looked like he had his second best season of his career in 2009. From watching the games as fans, we know that's not true. Brady was not the same last year after coming of knee surgery and playing through a litany of injuries. He made uncharacteristic mistakes and couldn't seal the deal in some games like he has so many times in the past.

I agree completely. I use those stats to indicate that while he didn't have a "very Brady" year last season, it wasn't like he sucked.

The same can be said for the defense. The stats might look pretty good, but from watching the games, there were a lot of issues and problems. Did you ever really trust this defense to get that big stop? It seemed like Belichick certainly didn't, especially against Indy.

Here I completely DISAGREE. The most of the stats showed that the Pats D was pretty pedestrian last season. However in the most important defensive stat, scoring D they did quite well (5th). The purpose of the comment was to show that a read and react defense ISN'T going to look or act like a dominant D to the fans or so called "experts". Yet the end result helps win games. The Pats D's in 2001 and 2003 BOTH ranked in the mid 20s as to their total defensive stats, yet both ranked in the top 5 (IIRC) in scoring D.

And if you look at who the Pats had on the field at the time, the fact that the Colts were at home and moving the ball well, BB made the correct decision on that 4th and 2. They just didn't get the spot.

That article about the blitzing teams just took a tally of how many times teams sent more than 4 rushers. We're talking more about the scheme specifically, 1-gap vs 2-gap. I think a blitzing 1-gap defense is what people are talking about as a more "aggressive" scheme because you have a D-Line trying to penetrate and LB's/safties coming. Even if you are running a blitz out of the 2-gap, it takes longer to develop since the first move of the DL is to engage their blocker and control the gaps on both sides, and then try to get to the QB after they read pass. A one-gapping penetrator is trying to get into the backfield and blow the play up before it can develop from the get go.

EXACTLY - Thank you for articulating better the difference between our 3-4 principals and those of teams like the Steelers, Ravens, and Jets who also use the 3-4 alignment, but are "more aggressive" Its all about how you use the DLmen. Its penetration vs read and react. The point is, will we see more penetration from our DL this season. I think we will, but not to the extent that it is a radical change from our current philosophy.

 

[patfanken]

I think that in terms of defense, the value of having monster OLB pass-rusher is overrated. We never really had one, and most certainly didn't have one during the early part of the previous decade.

Totally agree. In those years when we were looked on as having a great defense, I always prided the Pats on being among the top of the league each year in sack totals, yet never having an INDIVIDUAL with a double digit sack total.

I refer you to this top-notch analysis written by Jays52, a number of months ago. I hope that he will not mind me reproducing it here:

This was great. Thanks for finding it. IMHO, in this age of the short passing game, the 3 step drop, and spread formations, the key to an effective pass rush is more about getting IMMEDIATE pressure up the middle, than getting the traditional edge rush from an OLB or DE.



[[/QUOTE]

 

[Wolfpack]

Their defense almost lost them all 3 of those super bowls and finally cracked in '07. But to be fair, Brady had a perfect chance of pulling away from the Panthers but threw a dumb pass in the endzone that was intercepted which put the Panthers right back in the game.

Yeah, this is a ******ed statement. The defense single handedly won SB36. The true MVP of the game was Ty Law - though there really should have been co-MVP's with Ty Law and Otis Smith. But unfortunately that award has become a joke, often used to reward a guy for his season (or his career) instead of being given to the true MVP of the game.

SB38 was a very strange game, but I will admit the defense played poorly. The defense played very well in SB 39 and 42.

 

[neuronet]

Just to chime in: this is a great thread I've learned a lot about football in this thread. Why it only has three stars I have no idea.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I prefer the two-gap 3-4 because of the pressure it puts on precision-passing, big play offenses like the Colts. Guys like Peyton Manning can kill a penetrating offense with their ability to pick up the blitz and burn you deep. They look for those moments.

The one-gap is a risk-taking defense. It gambles that it can force a 3-and-out right now. That increasing the chance of an interception is worth the risk of a 40-yard catch-and-run by Dallas Clark.

The two-gap forces a team like the Colts to drive the length of the field, playing the odds that if they're out there for 10 plays they have 10 chances to throw an interception or go 3-and-out. It forces the Colts out of their game and into grinding out 4 and 5 yards at a time, running the ball at a team that excels at stopping the run.

In the AFC, getting to the big dance means beating the Colts. Winning the big dance means beating the Saints. As much the Patriots struggled with both those teams last year, that was a lack of talent against the Colts and poor coaching against the Saints, not scheme.

I still like the odds of a 3-4 two-gap defense slowing down the big-play offenses. But it requires a talented, physical, tough and well-conditioned team. These last two drafts have gone a long way toward that goal.

That was a good post. You make some valid points. I think both can be effective in neutralizing a team like the Colts. I've a BB 2-gap give Manning fits, but I've also seen a Rex Ryan 1-gap and Gregg Williams 1-gap give Manning trouble. I've also seen both types of defenses lit up by him.

I just don't think Belichick is in Manning's head anymore like he used to be. I think Manning is wise enough and patient enough to realize the disguising Belichick is trying to on defense now. The Jets were giving the Colts all they could handle in the regular season with that defense. They shut down the Chargers high powered offense. They did an excellent job on Brees in the regular season before Sanchez's turnovers destroyed them. I really think that with the additions they made at corner in Cromartie and Wilson, that defense is going to be even better and will be more effective against the top QB's. We will see.

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See point 4 where I explicitly mention this


Why the Props to Cromartie? when in the last 2 seasons have you seen ANY indication that Cromartie is any better than an average CB. And have you seen the guy tackle. HE DOESN'T. He makes Deon Sanders look like **** Butkis


I agree completely. I use those stats to indicate that while he didn't have a "very Brady" year last season, it wasn't like he sucked.



Here I completely DISAGREE. The most of the stats showed that the Pats D was pretty pedestrian last season. However in the most important defensive stat, scoring D they did quite well (5th). The purpose of the comment was to show that a read and react defense ISN'T going to look or act like a dominant D to the fans or so called "experts". Yet the end result helps win games. The Pats D's in 2001 and 2003 BOTH ranked in the mid 20s as to their total defensive stats, yet both ranked in the top 5 (IIRC) in scoring D.

And if you look at who the Pats had on the field at the time, the fact that the Colts were at home and moving the ball well, BB made the correct decision on that 4th and 2. They just didn't get the spot.



EXACTLY - Thank you for articulating better the difference between our 3-4 principals and those of teams like the Steelers, Ravens, and Jets who also use the 3-4 alignment, but are "more aggressive" Its all about how you use the DLmen. Its penetration vs read and react. The point is, will we see more penetration from our DL this season. I think we will, but not to the extent that it is a radical change from our current philosophy.

I wasn't talking about the Jets needing his tackling ability in that game. I was talking about them needing another guy that can hold his own in press man.

I feel differently than most about Cromartie. I wanted the Patriots to go out and get him when he was available and made a few threads about it. I thought he was outstanding in 2007 and did a great job in taking Moss out of that AFCCG. 08 he supposedly played on a bum hip so I give him the benefit of the doubt for not looking that great. 09 he didn't play at the level he did in 07, but I thought he had a very solid bounce back season. He's said that some of it had to do with scheme, as the Chargers have gone with more zone since Rivera took over and less man press like when Wade was there. I think he is the perfect in a Rex Ryan man press defense and think he will return close to his 2007 form. I know Deion thought this guy was going to be the next Champ Bailey. I still think the potential is there for him to be one of those shutdown/play on an island type of guys. He has the speed, fluid hips, and size to be a top 5 corner in the game IMO. We'll see how he does with Jets, and for our sake, I hope I'm 100% wrong.

I don't think the read and react defense is meant to be a dominant defense. It's a calculated defense that limits risks, plays it safe, and makes the other team earn everything IMO. It's a defense based around percentages and bending but not breaking. I think a scheme like Pitt, Baltimore, NYJ, etc. is more suited to be a "dominant" defense that can take over and win you ball games by itself and force quick three and outs.

I thought the 4th and 2 call was the right call by Belichick. I didn't have any faith that the D would be able to stop Peyton from marching down the field and scoring a GW TD against us. It was just terrible game/time management by BB and the team. Coming out of a TV timeout, they had to burn a TO before first down, threw the ball on 3rd down instead of running it to maybe pick up a yard and keep the clock running, burned another TO to discuss the 4th down play. That TO take before first down after a TV timeout is inexcusable. That pretty much cost them the game because I think if they had been able to challenge they would've given Faulk the spot.

I hope that we do see more penetration from our DL this year. I agree that we won't see a complete shift in philosophy, but I do hope that there is more gap-shooting this year. I'd also like to see more blitzes up the middle to collapse the pocket and flush the QB out on the run. I was so tired of seeing Mayo and Guyton just drop into 5 yard zones on almost every play last season. Hopefully we can see some dynamic A-gap blitzing done with a Mayo-Spikes tandem at ILB.

I'm ecstatic for the season start, and I love having discussions like this about strategy/philosophy/scheme.

 

[Deus Irae]

I just don't think Belichick is in Manning's head anymore like he used to be. I think Manning is wise enough and patient enough to realize the disguising Belichick is trying to on defense now. The Jets were giving the Colts all they could handle in the regular season with that defense. They shut down the Chargers high powered offense. They did an excellent job on Brees in the regular season before Sanchez's turnovers destroyed them. I really think that with the additions they made at corner in Cromartie and Wilson, that defense is going to be even better and will be more effective against the top QB's. We will see.

The Manning matchups are excellent examples of how the NFL has changed since the "put a skirt on the WRs" point of emphasis was put into place by Polian & Co. It used to be that physical corners who could give a great jam on the receivers was the way to beat Manning. You can't do that now, because the whistles now come when you sneeze on receivers. The result has been that the Manning system of "all timing passes, all the time" has become more effective, and it's become more important that you get to Manning, since you can't throw the timing off of passes by redirecting receivers anymore.

Not surprisingly, Manning & Co. have been to 2 Super Bowls since the rule change. If the league brought back the old way of calling contact, Manning would never see another Super Bowl without buying a ticket or watching on his television.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I just don't think Belichick is in Manning's head anymore like he used to be.

You're right, he doesn't. In fact, he hasn't been in Manning's head since 2004. I'll even take it a step further and say that no QB dreads facing BB's defense.

The 2005 match-up between the Colts and Pats was a painful game to watch. If I'm not mistaken, most of Manning's long pass plays were throws he just chucked up in the air and believed Harrison or Wayne were going to beat whoever was guarding them. And he was right! There was one play in particular were Manning had to roll out of the pocket because of the pressure and if you were watching it on TV, you'd think that he was going to throw the ball away. Nope! He did something he hardly ever does well, roll out of the pocket and throw on the run. He connected on his prayer pass and which turned out to be a common theme with the Pats defense in 2005. Since then, the Pats are 1-5 against the Colts.

Yeah, this is a ******ed statement. The defense single handedly won SB36. The true MVP of the game was Ty Law - though there really should have been co-MVP's with Ty Law and Otis Smith. But unfortunately that award has become a joke, often used to reward a guy for his season (or his career) instead of being given to the true MVP of the game.

SB38 was a very strange game, but I will admit the defense played poorly. The defense played very well in SB 39 and 42.

Sure, the defense helped them get a 17-3 against the Rams, but they let them score two TD's in the 4th quarter. But honestly, the Pats had no business winning that game just like the Giants in 2007.