Why the Costly Jump Up in the Seventh for a Developmental OT?

[Seneschal2]

It will be interesting to see if Thomas Welch of Vandy (#208) can make the team and produces over the years more than I think a more polished, proven player in Iowa's Kyle Calloway, taken at #216 by the Bills.

Overlooked in this entire thread is the head coach at Iowa -- Kirk Ferentz. Here's someone who's spent most of his career coaching the offensive line, and more importantly, served as Belichick's OL coach w/ the Browns. Now why would BB choose Welch over one of Ferentz's pupils (Calloway) unless Welch was actually the better developmental prospect?

 

[bucky]

Summary of this thread: People think they are more qualified than Bill Belichick.

Either that, or they simple have more resources to make a better evaluation - more film to watch and enough time to watch it several times. More 1-1 time to interview the prospects. More inside information from reliable sources.

 

[Underdog]

When was the last time you saw an NFL offensive lineman who started off as a QB?

JaMarcus Russell?

 

[WaterfallJumper]

JaMarcus Russell?

What a great post to wake up to! :singing:

 

[captain stone]

JaMarcus Russell?

Post of the Day candidate.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I completely, whole-heartedly agree.

Bill would've been better-served using that pick instead on pass-rushers like George Selvie, Willie Young, Lindsey Witten or Brandon Lang; WRs like Blair White, Scott Long or Chris McGaha; RBs like Lonyae Miller or Andre Dixon; H-Backs like Dorin ****erson or Jameson Konz; ILBs like Mike McLaughlin or Jamar Cheney; 5-Techniques like CJ Wilson or Doug Worthington; CBs like SydQuan Thompson, Donovan Warren, AJ Jefferson or David Pender; OTs like Selvish Capers, Tony Washington or Kyle Calloway; or even FBs like Rashawn Jackson or Manase Tonga.

And you know this how?

 

[chevss454]

BB is on record as saying he had Thomas Welch with a higher grade than any 4th rounder in the '07 draft. BB and Scar like what Welch brings to the Pats. They had him targeted and went after him. What's so hard to understand? And why do you consider it costly?

 

[PATSNUTme]

As I recall they called the picking of Vollmer in the 2nd a "major reach" last year.

Just because draft gurus have players ranked in certain sots doesn't mean the the majority of NFL teams have that player ranked in the same spots.

 

[fester]

And you know this how?

I completely, whole-heartedly agree.

Bill would've been better-served using that pick instead on pass-rushers like George Selvie, Willie Young, Lindsey Witten or Brandon Lang; WRs like Blair White, Scott Long or Chris McGaha; RBs like Lonyae Miller or Andre Dixon; H-Backs like Dorin ****erson or Jameson Konz; ILBs like Mike McLaughlin or Jamar Cheney; 5-Techniques like CJ Wilson or Doug Worthington; CBs like SydQuan Thompson, Donovan Warren, AJ Jefferson or David Pender; OTs like Selvish Capers, Tony Washington or Kyle Calloway; or even FBs like Rashawn Jackson or Manase Tonga.

7th rounders have a 10% chance of working out (lasting more than 3 years in the league) so in your attempt to claim brilliance or at least prescience, you name 20+ guys so in three years you can claim you saw 1 or 2 of them as superior to the Pats picks.

If you had any scouting talent or ability, you would name 2 guys and be willing to review your successes and failures two years out instead of naming 10x as many guys as the odds would suggest and cherry pick.

 

[Sciz]

Either that, or they simple have more resources to make a better evaluation - more film to watch and enough time to watch it several times. More 1-1 time to interview the prospects. More inside information from reliable sources.

This is the best post of this thread. Unless any of you are NFL scouts or coached these kids in college, I'm going to guess that every team knows more about the players than you. Way too early to be calling the Patriots out for screwing things up.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

7th rounders have a 10% chance of working out (lasting more than 3 years in the league) so in your attempt to claim brilliance or at least prescience, you name 20+ guys so in three years you can claim you saw 1 or 2 of them as superior to the Pats picks.

If you had any scouting talent or ability, you would name 2 guys and be willing to review your successes and failures two years out instead of naming 10x as many guys as the odds would suggest and cherry pick.

Captain stone can speak for himself. If you read his post carefully, he was naming people available this year in the late rounds, specifically the 7th, that would have been promising picks at LB or WR rather than the lineman BB chose. Captain stone's theses is that Weston, Deadrick and others could be available as UDFAs while players like Witten, Lang and Blair White would have higher payoffs.

It is clear that the preference of many fans is in seeking players in the 7th round who may actually fulfill a real need like a pass-rusher or a possible high ceiling skill player rather than big bodied linemen who merely add depth and may at best make the practice squad. On the other hand, BB is the chef who does his own grocery shopping. One presumes he knows what kinds of ingredients he needs and the opportunity cost of passing on other possible ingredients. Two different philosophies.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Captain stone can speak for himself. If you read his post carefully, he was naming people available this year in the late rounds, specifically the 7th, that would have been promising picks at LB or WR rather than the lineman BB chose. Captain stone's theses is that Weston, Deadrick and others could be available as UDFAs while players like Witten, Lang and Blair White would have higher payoffs.

It is clear that the preference of many fans is in seeking players in the 7th round who may actually fulfill a real need like a pass-rusher or a possible high ceiling skill player rather than big bodied linemen who merely add depth and may at best make the practice squad. On the other hand, BB is the chef who does his own grocery shopping. One presumes he knows what kinds of ingredients he needs and the opportunity cost of passing on other possible ingredients. Two different philosophies.

BB also considers how likely it is that he can sign a player as an UDFA v. "needing" to draft that player. Sometimes he's right (e.g., Cassel would probably not have been a Patriot had they not drafted him), sometimes he's not (Bo Ruud, anyone?).

 

[captain stone]

And you know this how?

Because those players have more talent, at positions of greater need. Even the position chosen with that pick had at least 2 players more ready to help than Welch: Selvish Capers at LT and Kyle Calloway at RT.

 

[captain stone]

BB also considers how likely it is that he can sign a player as an UDFA v. "needing" to draft that player. Sometimes he's right (e.g., Cassel would probably not have been a Patriot had they not drafted him), sometimes he's not (Bo Ruud, anyone?).

I agree. Cassel would surely have signed as a UFDA with Tennessee, whose OC at the time, Norm Chow, was Cassel's OC at USC.

 

[Bostonian1962]

It will be interesting to see if Thomas Welch of Vandy (#208) can make the team and produces over the years more than I think a more polished, proven player in Iowa's Kyle Calloway, taken at #216 by the Bills. Calloway more than held his own, for example, against Jarod Odrick for two years, as the Hawkeyes handled Penn State's D-line.

Here's Pete Prisco's look at the 7th round: Grades: 2010 NFL Draft Round 7 - NFL - CBSSports.com Football

He gave us a C and a B+ for the Bills. I think those grades are justified right now at this point.

I think this a little example of the Patriots getting too cute with the draft. They like to try and show off their vaunted college scouting team. yeah, Welch might be slightly more athletic, but Calloway's been succeeding in the trenches longer. Player Bio: Kyle Calloway - IOWA OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE

This team seems to draft as well at O Linemen as any postion, so this pick works for me, in Round seven. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if Calloway is limited to guard in the pros, while Welch played LT in college, so probably has more of a chance as a Tackle.

 

[patchick]

Because those players have more talent, at positions of greater need. Even the position chosen with that pick had at least 2 players more ready to help than Welch: Selvish Capers at LT and Kyle Calloway at RT.

With Light, Vollmer, LeVoir and Kaczur all under contract, "ready to help" is surely not the main criterion in a 7th-round OT. Looking at long-term potential, I really don't see why you're so much higher on Calloway than Welch. Calloway is an right-side guy only, and a poor athlete who doesn't come close to Welch on the short-area explosiveness and quickness measures that typify successful Pats' o-linemen.

Capers is much more of a mystery. He was one of the biggest fallers of the draft vis a vis pre-draft predictions, and athletic OTs are NOT the folks you expect to fall. I know he had a shaky Senior Bowl, but I have to think there were other things the entire league saw/heard to bring his stock down.

 

[Off The Grid]

I pray for the day when Coach Bill II ~ the Mad Genius ~ swears off drafting anything BUT O Liners and Defenders in the first 2 Rounds!!

I really can't fault anyone for liking Kyle Calloway, but Welch scored considerably better in the Cones and the Shuttle ~ Quickness, Laterality, and Explosiveness ~ and that's where I like to place MY bets.

 

[DaBruinz]

I completely, whole-heartedly agree.

Bill would've been better-served using that pick instead on pass-rushers like George Selvie, Willie Young, Lindsey Witten or Brandon Lang; WRs like Blair White, Scott Long or Chris McGaha; RBs like Lonyae Miller or Andre Dixon; H-Backs like Dorin ****erson or Jameson Konz; ILBs like Mike McLaughlin or Jamar Cheney; 5-Techniques like CJ Wilson or Doug Worthington; CBs like SydQuan Thompson, Donovan Warren, AJ Jefferson or David Pender; OTs like Selvish Capers, Tony Washington or Kyle Calloway; or even FBs like Rashawn Jackson or Manase Tonga.

WHINE.. WHINE.. WHINE... COMPLAIN.. COMPLAIN. COMPLAIN.. Let us know when you actually start working as a scout or a Director of Personnel..

You always make these comments, yet you fail to acknowledge that there are HUGE gaps of information in "review" of the players..

RBs - Miller comes from Fresno State. Where Pat White is the coach.. White happens to be a long time friend of Bill.. I'm sure you can do the math. As for Dixon, every other team passed on him until he signed as a UDFA. Dixon also had character red flags..

White or Long - No one grabbed them. Both ended up being UDFA
Konz /****erson - The Pats drafted Hernandez for the H-back role..

McLaughlin/Chaney - The Pats have Spikes and McKenzie is returning from injury. They also have Guyton, Alexander and Murrell on the roster. Did you stop to think that maybe the Pats didn't like how Chaney had recovered from his broken leg?

As for McLaughlin, he's another coming off a major set of injuries.. A torn ACL that he did in the spring and then a Ruptured Achilles.


The CBs - The Pats had already added McCourty. They also had 6 on the roster. Of the ones you mentioned, only Jefferson was intriguing.

Why would the Pats add a SLOW CB in Thompson (4.75 - 40)??

Donovan Warren has a great pedigree, but he's a free safety.. And safety is one area where the Pats are stacked at.. With Sander, McGowan, Meriweather, Chung, Arrington and Lockett..

As for the Pass Rushers: Yeah, I was hoping they'd take either Lang or Witten.. Clearly they saw something that we don't.

As for Selvie, is there a player other than Ernest Shazor who's stock plummetted the way his did. He was being touted as a top 15 pick last year.. and he finally got taken by the Rams in the 7th round.. It's real easy to understand why teams didn't go to Selvie.. All one has to do is look at his splits.. THey are horrible.


As for the other OTs you mentioned.

Capers - Only played RT at WVU.
Calloway - Kirk Ferentz is the Iowa Coach.. He's got a long history with BB.
Washington - Extremely Raw.

Why would the Pats draft a FB when they clearly want it to be an H-BACK..

 

[DaBruinz]

Dante scarnechia was promised the pick to pick whomever he liked. He didn't want to wait around so he insisted they trade up, so he could be done with it.
I wish they had just waited, could have gotten denver's fifth.

don't know that there's any room for this guy on the PS and he would have gone undrafted even if we had 20 rounds.

Sentences like your last one just sap any sort of credibility you might have had.

Welch wasn't much of a reach at the top of the 7th. You are clearly one of those people who takes the draft sites as gospel. So you must be devastated every year when they all get the Pats picks wrong and you are left scratching your head why..

 

[DaBruinz]

I care too.

4 picks in the 7th round, and all of them were spent on guys I would have barely considered as UDFAs.

Which team are you a scout for again?

If Bill wanted to give Dante a new toy to play on the edge, he should've given him Selvish Capers for the left side, or Kyle Calloway for the right side. Tom Welch simply didn't carry a draftable grade; he's a mid-priority UDFA at best.

Your a tool. Capers played the RIGHT SIDE his entire college career. No one projects him to the left side.

Calloway isn't nearly as strong or as explosive off the line as Welch. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Deadheaderick comes from Alabama with baggage (what a shock; another Pats pick with character issues) and is too damn slow to ever make any plays in the backfield. At least he's bigger & stronger than the smaller & weaker - but not much faster - Darryl Little Richard.

Deaderick was drafted to be a 3-4 DE. Not a 4-3 DE which is clearly where you think he'll be playing. Most likely, he'll take reps at LDE. The strong side.

Weston might give Brace a run for his money, but that says more about Brace's incompetence than it does about Weston's accomplishments.

WRONG. Weston is another 5-tech guy.. Not a NT. And Weston will probably be battling Myron Pryor for a spot or trying to secure what used to be Jarvis Green's spot.

Zac Robinson wishes he were a poor man's Brian Hoyer.

Seriously, do you know ANYTHING about anyone you're actually commenting on. Who do you think was throwing all those passes to Dez Bryant and Brandon Pettigrew? He's coming from a spread offense to a team that runs, oh... wait for it.. A spread offense.. He's got good ability to read defenses quickly and he's got a compact throwing motion. He's also stronger than people expected.. Will he amount to anything? Only time will tell.

Speaking of Hoyer, why Bill didn't use one of his 3 7th-round comps on Hoyer's teammate Blair White is a complete mystery to me. It is inexcusable & beyond negligent that 2 of those 5 6th- and 7th-rounders weren't used on another WR (specifically White or Scott Long) plus another pass-rusher (specifically Lindsey Witten or Brandon Lang).

What's inexcusable and beyond negligent is how you nitpick every late round pick like you are some grand personnel guy who has put together a multitude of SB winning teams.

ALL YOU DO IS COLLECT TALENT. Collecting talent doesn't win games.. Building a TEAM wins games. As BB has proven. I doubt you'll ever figure that out.