Rodney's thoughts on Moss

[Fencer]

Guys, it's obvious Moss quit on a whole lot of plays. If you want to disagree, disagree abotu WHY he quit. Reasonable theories, not mutually exclusive, include but are not limited to:

A. He doesn't care
B. He was mad/pouting
C. He gets tentative when frustrated early
D. He's physically banged up

LOTS of knowledgeable people have said or suggested C is a major tendency of his, including a former coach, a former teammate, the opposing CB, and (sort of) his current teammates.

 

[emoney_33]

I'm back now and I must say Deus, you are definitely one interesting character. You go round and round until you can find a loophole to jump out of and never admit you were wrong. Anyway, since you've gone in circles and back again, I think you are now saying... wait nevermind I still have no idea what your point is. Probably because you don't really have a point and just like to argue.

 

[emoney_33]

Guys, it's obvious Moss quit on a whole lot of plays. If you want to disagree, disagree abotu WHY he quit. Reasonable theories, not mutually exclusive, include but are not limited to:

A. He doesn't care
B. He was mad/pouting
C. He gets tentative when frustrated early
D. He's physically banged up

LOTS of knowledgeable people have said or suggested C is a major tendency of his, including a former coach, a former teammate, the opposing CB, and (sort of) his current teammates.

If anything Gamble and the Panther's said made any damn sense, Moss would not have the career he has had. That's really the bottom line. If it's as simple as getting physical and doubling him early and then he becomes mediocre, he wouldn't have HOF production.

So supposedly throughout his career he has a tendency to shut it down and not run plays out after getting frustrated. Supposedly everyone around the league knows you just have to be physical with Moss early and then he'll start quitting. But still everyone in the league continues to let Moss put up numbers that put him in the top 5, and there's not even been another deep threat this season.

Yea that is likely I guess

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Ryan Leaf is the one quarterback who drove him nuts. "He sounded like a little girl," Harrison said. "Like a cat stuck in a door."

I miss Rodney

 

[Deus Irae]

Why? You keep claiming this, but it never made sense to begin with, and it still doesn't There are 21 other guys on the field, and 10 of them are Moss's teammates who actually know what Moss is supposed to be doing on any given play. Gamble isn't one of those 10. Does his perspective matter? Certainly. But to claim that the perspective of, say, Tom Brady (only the guy who's passing to him) doesn't matter is just dumb. Not to even mention Belichick.

Context. You keep ignoring it. I understand. It undercuts your misleading argument. I posted on this earlier in this very thread:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/303036-rodneys-thoughts-moss-page3.html#post1641762

 

[The Dynasty]

Why? You keep claiming this, but it never made sense to begin with, and it still doesn't There are 21 other guys on the field, and 10 of them are Moss's teammates who actually know what Moss is supposed to be doing on any given play. Gamble isn't one of those 10. Does his perspective matter? Certainly. But to claim that the perspective of, say, Tom Brady (only the guy who's passing to him) doesn't matter is just dumb. Not to even mention Belichick.

The 10 other players on the field that are on the Patriots are not looking at what Randy Moss is doing, except Tom Brady oin passing plays that Moss is running routes for. They are concerned about doing their job, not seeing what Randy Moss is doing. BB is not watching just Randy Moss on every play. The Panthers players are focused on doing their job on defense. Gambles job was to stop Randy Moss, therefore he is the only one on the field that can watch Randy Moss on every play. Because of this Gamble has the most accurate thoughts as to whether Moss was giving his best effort. You dont have to see a player play every week to know if he is giving his best effort. You can tell by the way the player comes off the ball, the way he cuts, the way he conducts himself after every play. The only player on the field that saw this every play was Gamble. It really isnt a hard concept to understand

 

[emoney_33]

The 10 other players on the field that are on the Patriots are not looking at what Randy Moss is doing, except Tom Brady oin passing plays that Moss is running routes for. They are concerned about doing their job, not seeing what Randy Moss is doing. BB is not watching just Randy Moss on every play. The Panthers players are focused on doing their job on defense. Gambles job was to stop Randy Moss, therefore he is the only one on the field that can watch Randy Moss on every play. Because of this Gamble has the most accurate thoughts as to whether Moss was giving his best effort. You dont have to see a player play every week to know if he is giving his best effort. You can tell by the way the player comes off the ball, the way he cuts, the way he conducts himself after every play. The only player on the field that saw this every play was Gamble. It really isnt a hard concept to understand

Moss has never looked like he was trying, even when at top speed blowing by double coverage. His body language doesn't change, he always looks as if he's not trying. Your idea that you can tell when he is or isn't trying off the snap is wrong first of all. Second of all, once again if Gamble knew when he wasn't trying why the hell didn't they stop the rest of the Pats team? Why did they continue to focus on stopping a guy who isn't trying anymore? Did they think possibly they were wrong? If they thought that then could they have been wrong?

 

[Patspsycho]

Moss has never looked like he was trying, even when at top speed blowing by double coverage. His body language doesn't change, he always looks as if he's not trying. Your idea that you can tell when he is or isn't trying off the snap is wrong first of all. Second of all, once again if Gamble knew when he wasn't trying why the hell didn't they stop the rest of the Pats team? Why did they continue to focus on stopping a guy who isn't trying anymore? Did they think possibly they were wrong? If they thought that then could they have been wrong?

This is a good point. They always had a safety on top cheating over to his side.

 

[The Dynasty]

Moss has never looked like he was trying, even when at top speed blowing by double coverage. His body language doesn't change, he always looks as if he's not trying. Your idea that you can tell when he is or isn't trying off the snap is wrong first of all. Second of all, once again if Gamble knew when he wasn't trying why the hell didn't they stop the rest of the Pats team? Why did they continue to focus on stopping a guy who isn't trying anymore? Did they think possibly they were wrong? If they thought that then could they have been wrong?

Did Moss blow by Gamble and double coverage yesterday? No he didnt, therefore he didnt give his best effort. You arent getting this...Moss was frustrated because he hasnt been getting the ball and producing, which caused the effort he gives to decline. If the Panthers all of a sudden take their best CB in Gamble of off Moss. Both Moss' and Bradys eyes light up and they throw to Moss every play. This goes back to Moss "playing when he wants to play". When Moss sees a weak CB on him he is going to want to play. The Panthers obviously stuck with their game plan in limiting Moss because once they changed that Moss would tear them apart.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i don't know why chirs Gamble would say that moss quit even if he did and it looked like he did on some plays but thats just moss

if i was a corner i would say i did a good job on moss and i got a INT i would not say he quit i can stop him thats why i got that INT lol Gamble is crazy

 

[emoney_33]

Did Moss blow by Gamble and double coverage yesterday? No he didnt, therefore he didnt give his best effort. You arent getting this...Moss was frustrated because he hasnt been getting the ball and producing, which caused the effort he gives to decline. If the Panthers all of a sudden take their best CB in Gamble of off Moss. Both Moss' and Bradys eyes light up and they throw to Moss every play. This goes back to Moss "playing when he wants to play". When Moss sees a weak CB on him he is going to want to play. The Panthers obviously stuck with their game plan in limiting Moss because once they changed that Moss would tear them apart.

What kind of warped logic is that? If Moss doesn't blow by double coverage he didn't give his best effort? WTF

 

[The Dynasty]

What kind of warped logic is that? If Moss doesn't blow by double coverage he didn't give his best effort? WTF

Thats what he usually does after not coming off the ball hard, right? Because he wants to put the defense to sleep and then burn them deep. He didnt do that at all yesterday...

 

[emoney_33]

Thats what he usually does after not coming off the ball hard, right? Because he wants to put the defense to sleep and then burn them deep. He didnt do that at all yesterday...

You lost me. He looks like he's jogging when he's running faster than you can run. His body language is deceptive because he ALWAYS looks like he's not trying. Doesn't mean he's going to capitalize on it perfectly every game. And I'm also not saying there wasn't something else wrong with him on Sunday. I'm simply saying you cant determine his effort from his body language.

 

[The Dynasty]

You lost me. He looks like he's jogging when he's running faster than you can run. His body language is deceptive because he ALWAYS looks like he's not trying. Doesn't mean he's going to capitalize on it perfectly every game. And I'm also not saying there wasn't something else wrong with him on Sunday. I'm simply saying you cant determine his effort from his body language.

But Chris Gamble can though thats my point. He covered him the whole game, he can tell whether he gave everything he had out there.

 

[emoney_33]

But Chris Gamble can though thats my point. He covered him the whole game, he can tell whether he gave everything he had out there.

No he cannot.

 

[The Dynasty]

No he cannot.

How? I dont understand it.

Would it be different if it was any other WR?

 

[emoney_33]

How? I dont understand it.

Would it be different if it was any other WR?

I guess it would depend on the receiver. Are you trying to get into hypotheticals?

 

[The Dynasty]

I guess it would depend on the receiver. Are you trying to get into hypotheticals?

I am trying to see where your coming from, but having a hard time understanding.

 

[emoney_33]

I am trying to see where your coming from, but having a hard time understanding.

Hard time understanding my argument that Moss' body language doesn't change and he's very deceptive in that he looks the same when he is jogging or running his fastest?

 

[The Dynasty]

Hard time understanding my argument that Moss' body language doesn't change and he's very deceptive in that he looks the same when he is jogging or running his fastest?

No, hard time that Gamble cannot tell whether Moss is giving his best effort