Gholston and Groves - New England Patriots Forums

BRiZ · 03-02-2008, 09:52 AM

anyone think they could play ILB? Dont think its too far fetched, i mean the Pats are constantly converting DE ends and moving them inside, look at Thomas, and they were interested in Pace. I dont like it really but there are no stud ILBs to draft this year.

Gholston 6'3" 266 lbs 4.67 40-yard
Groves 6'3" 259 lbs 4.57 40-yard

Gholston is strong enough to throw lineman away, Groves is pretty strong too.

PonyExpress · 03-02-2008, 09:59 AM

Why would you want them to play ILB? They're explosive edge rushers. It would waste their talent. Also, you'd have to spend a first rdr on a DE-ILB conversion, which is a much longer adjustment than a DE-OLB conversion. It would probably take at least 2 seasons before either one was competent at his new position. meanwhile he could have been terrorizing the QB. That's a bad idea, no offense.

Draft them to play OLB. Let them ease into the position behind Vrabel/AD. Or move AD back inside, where he blitzed so effectively before Colvin's injury.

BRiZ · 03-02-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PonyExpress

Why would you want them to play ILB? They're explosive edge rushers. It would waste their talent. Also, you'd have to spend a first rdr on a DE-ILB conversion, which is a much longer adjustment than a DE-OLB conversion. It would probably take at least 2 seasons before either one was competent at his new position. meanwhile he could have been terrorizing the QB. That's a bad idea, no offense.

Draft them to play OLB. Let them ease into the position behind Vrabel/AD. Or move AD back inside, where he blitzed so effectively before Colvin's injury.

Well we already have OLBs. Adalius Thomas is going to be staying outside and we will probably be picking up Jason Taylor and have Vrabel as well. Who do we got inside? Bruschi and maybe Seau?

I agree they would be better outside pass rushing but could they play inside? They have the size and strength, and their 40's are good for big inside backers. Preferably id rather put Groves inside, trade down from 7 with chicago and take Cromartie at 14 and Groves at 44.

PonyExpress · 03-02-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRiZ

Well we already have OLBs. Adalius Thomas is going to be staying outside and we will probably be picking up Jason Taylor and have Vrabel as well. Who do we got inside? Bruschi and maybe Seau?

I agree they would be better outside pass rushing but could they play inside? They have the size and strength, and their 40's are good for big inside backers. Preferably id rather put Groves inside, trade down from 7 with chicago and take Cromartie at 14 and Groves at 44.

These are alot of assumptions you're making. You say AD and Vrabel will stay outside, and the Pats will pick up JT. So which one will move inside then? And if the Pats don't pick up JT, what's the long term future at the position? What if one gets injured as Colvin did this season, or an ILB gets injured and Vrabel has to move inside? The position needs depth, youth, and frankly quality. Neither Vrabel nor AD is an elite pass rusher, whatever stats say. They benefit from scheme, opportunity due to the Pats being ahead and forcing the other team into predictable passing situations, and the fact that teams generally assign TEs, fullbacks to block them. Rarely do you see these players defeat OTs in 1 on 1 machups, as the league's elite pass rushers regularly do. A mutitude of pass rushers is necessary to maintain depth at maybe the most crucial defensive position on the field late into the season when injury attrition has taken its toll.

Groves at #44 is a pipedream. An edge rusher with that speed doesn't last that long. That's why you're idea of putting him inside goes against the player's natural ability. That's a recipe for drafting a bust.

BRiZ · 03-02-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PonyExpress

These are alot of assumptions you're making. You say AD and Vrabel will stay outside, and the Pats will pick up JT. So which one will move inside then? And if the Pats don't pick up JT, what's the long term future at the position? What if one gets injured as Colvin did this season, or an ILB gets injured and Vrabel has to move inside? The position needs depth, youth, and frankly quality. Neither Vrabel nor AD is an elite pass rusher, whatever stats say. They benefit from scheme, opportunity due to the Pats being ahead and forcing the other team into predictable passing situations, and the fact that teams generally assign TEs, fullbacks to block them. Rarely do you see these players defeat OTs in 1 on 1 machups, as the league's elite pass rushers regularly do. A mutitude of pass rushers is necessary to maintain depth at maybe the most crucial defensive position on the field late into the season when injury attrition has taken its toll.

Groves at #44 is a pipedream. An edge rusher with that speed doesn't last that long. That's why you're idea of putting him inside goes against the player's natural ability. That's a recipe for drafting a bust.

im just exploring all possibilities. Thomas isnt going back inside he played poorly in there if you take a look at his solo tackles he was barely making 2 tackles a game, when they moved him outside his production went up and he made 6-7 sacks. He doesnt have the agility and change of direction to play at an elite level inside, outside hes a probowler imo. I dont think by getting Taylor forces anyone inside, a rotation of AD, Taylor, and Vrabel could be used outside.

Groves isnt a lock for the 1st round he should go early in the second at the latest. He could be there at chicagos 44 pick. I dont see Gholston or Groves being better than Thomas and Taylor on the outside in the short term. Long term obviously they are the better options cause of their youth, but that isnt really a priority over finding someone that can play inside.

Im not saying to do it just exploring the possibility. The Pats seem to like converting DE for the inside.

primetime · 03-02-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRiZ

He could be there at chicagos 44 pick.

He about as much chance of Matt Ryan or Chris Long to be available at #44. I love the people who consistently overrate DRC and underrate Groves.

BRiZ · 03-02-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by primetime

He about as much chance of Matt Ryan or Chris Long to be available at #44. I love the people who consistently overrate DRC and underrate Groves.

thats because its true. DRC is the real deal, high second is a likely place for Groves to go too.

primetime · 03-02-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRiZ

thats because its true. DRC is the real deal, high second is a likely place for Groves to go too.

No, it's not. Groves will be gone in the 1st round. Why, exactly, is Cromartie the "real deal"? Did you see him play a single down before the Senior Bowl?

patriotsdynasty12189 · 03-02-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRiZ

Well we already have OLBs. Adalius Thomas is going to be staying outside and we will probably be picking up Jason Taylor and have Vrabel as well. Who do we got inside? Bruschi and maybe Seau?

I agree they would be better outside pass rushing but could they play inside? They have the size and strength, and their 40's are good for big inside backers. Preferably id rather put Groves inside, trade down from 7 with chicago and take Cromartie at 14 and Groves at 44.

Taylor is staying at Miami. Parcells already said it.

sebman2112 · 03-02-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patriotsdynasty12189

Taylor is staying at Miami. Parcells already said it.

When did he say this? I thought there was a report that came out either yesterday or today that said the Dolphins have told Jason Taylor they plan to trade him sometime before the draft?