MaineMan

It never occurred to me that being tied for 14th in sacks and being three short of making it into the top ten means that you're "among the worst in football."

Deus Irae

I posted this in another thread, but it seems that it needs to be pointed out again and again. I'll modify it just enough to remove the part that was specific to the post I was replying to:


Anyone who belittles sacks is missing a lot of the picture. In the Patriots system, INDIVIDUAL sack totals are relatively unimportant. Team sack totals, however, show a high degree of correlation with the team's ability to get the job done, because the defense is designed to work as one symbiotic organism, with coverage leading to sacks and sacks leading to coverage.

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

MaineMan

Yep.

Good info, BTW. Thanks. Also interesting to note that, in 2008, 30 sacks was good for 14th, but 31 sacks was good for only 23rd in 2009 and 36 sacks in 2010 was only good for 14th as well.

Anyway, I think the Pats 10-yr average is around 39 sacks with seasons that extended into the Conference Championship game and beyond averaging something like 43 sacks.

patsfaninpittsburgh

I'm being "controntational" because I have zero wish to debate needs.

Here is my point:

If the value @17 is the CB, don't be shocked if we draft a CB because Bill Belichick says we can never have too many corners. Also I provided some alternative points that MAY provide some other ideas that Belichick could consider.



For years, people can't figure out the Belichick draft trade theory. If he doesn't have someone he wants he'll trade the pick vs drafting a guy he doesn't want.
People may not agree, that's fine, but don't be shocked or not understand that it will most likely happen.

Yes, my wish list is:

#1 secondary-maybe that's why it came easier to me why BB would draft a CB.

Dline rotation that can bring pressure with 4 guys. Anybody can have an opinion on players. However, it's a basic problem if you don't consider if players are going to return and what they offer.

Smart, flexible linebackers. "Flexibility" does include the ability to bring pressure.

My wants are for a pass rush that comes from various directions and personnel with the option for pressure from four Dline guys. I would also not waste a first rounder on a pass rush specialist.

Also, I'm not doing the drafting so the best I can do is study the drafting dude.

DonBlackmon55

Sacks are the most useless statistic to judge a defense. There've been teams, and in some cases even players getting 3,4,5,7, 8,9 sacks in one game, and nothing for next many games.

Its about bringing pressure. Negative plays are result of pressure ! And sack is one type of negative play resulting from pressure, as are forced int, incompletions, QB strips/fumble etc. Of all the teams, Pats should know that very well considering what happened to our OL in some SB's losses...Bears, Packers, G-men, and then following year in Rd 1 vs Ravens. On the other hand when our team handled the pressure from Panthers and Eagles vaunted Defensive front, or likes of "Lights Out" clown in SD we were SB champs, or moved deeper into playoffs.

Deus Irae

__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius

DonBlackmon55

I actually very much like the idea of adding another good cover corner. With Bodden coming back, Mc"Lock"ty, a draft pick, and Butler, that very nice CB depth.

With DL depth returnining with Wright, Warren, Pryor, and already added LB in Spikes and Cunningham, I could see us trading #28 for next year pick, or trade down into Rd 2. BB won't shell $$ for 2 first Rd picks. Money is better used to sign a FA if they can pry Hali or Woodley.

So,

DE/OLB , and low level WR - FA addition
#17 - CB
#28 - traded for 2012 picks
#33 - OG/Center
#60 - OT/DT
#74 - RB
#92 - DE (developmental type)

rest of the picks are crap shoot and would not be surprised of they package them to move around in the draft if they have specific player or two in mind

I don't see more than 5-6 players BB will bring onto this team from the draft.

DonBlackmon55

Which is why I expect a CB if one of the top one's available at #17. We've already learnt over many years BB won't invest in LB in Rd1 unless he get's top echelon talent.

DL Rd1 picks he's been very good talent judge - Sey, Wilfork, Warren(from the ultimate bust DL class of 2003 with Robertson, Kennedy, J. Sulliavan, M. Haynes, McDougle, Joseph...only Ty and Kevin Williams still around). Sey, Ty, Wilfork were all top 10 talent, and we lucked getting Vince in 20's. Don't see that elite DL talent this yr.

MaineMan

It's about bringing pressure. Yeah, I think most of us get that. Unless someone has paid for access to Pro-Football-Focus stats that include QB hits and pressures, as well as TFL, the most any of us has to go by as a crude estimate of pressure is sacks. And it doesn't seem extremely unreasonable to guess that a team that gets more sacks is also getting more "near-miss" pressures.

In terms of the other results of pressure, the Pats led the league in INTs in 2010 and, IIRC, were also pretty high on the FF list.

Shelterdog

We aren't prying Hali or Woodley.

I am completely stunned by the number of people who want to use #17 on a rookie corner.

You all know that player isn't going to start if Bodden and McCourty are healthy, right?

You all know that payer may not even be our nickel or dime back because Butler and Arrington are halfway decent players with more experience-and corners usually take some time to develop-and by the way BB also likes using a third safety as the nickel back a lot of the time so the third corner doesn't even play that much in a lot of games. You all realize this, don't you?

You all must surely understand that Connolly, Ninkovich and Kaczur are all probable starters with the roster set up the way it is right now?

You all must know Wendell moves into the starting lineup with Mankins holds out, and that Thomas Clayton-a 2007 draftee with 17 career rushing yards-is our number three running back.

You can't have too many corners but you can have too few running backs, linebackers, or guards. The team has such terrible talent at other positions that I simply can't fathom placing corner as a top need.