LaRon Landry helmet to helmet hit on Julian Edelman - New England Patriots Forums

RayClay · 11-24-2012, 12:22 PM

It has been proposed here that it's OK to hit a runner with your helmet, as Landry did to Edelman, because he was running and therefore not defenseless.

I was surprised no one challenged that as I thought Landry was guilty of what we used to call spearing. I'm not a rule expert, but i believe I'm right and he should have been penalized.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8 (Unnecessary roughness) in the NFL rulebook

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...sary-roughness

Quote:

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:

They give special attention to marginal, or incidental shots to those in defenseless postures, but leading with the crown of your helmet has always been a penalty. Right or wrong?

[I haven't rewatched it, BTW, my memory of the contact could be wrong]

RayClay · 11-24-2012, 12:36 PM

Hmmm...

Quote:

Landry was not flagged on the play, as NBC's Al Michaels explained helmet-to-helmet is not enforceable on a running play. That said, Landry could be fined for the hit by the league.

Julian Edelman injury update: Receiver enters locker room after helmet-to-helmet hit - SBNation.com

I don't think so.

No arms, no shoulder, that's a penalty and a fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxgz5aSSojc

***Deus Irae*** · 11-24-2012, 12:44 PM

He went with his shoulder and Edelman dropped his head.

RayClay · 11-24-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

He went with his shoulder and Edelman dropped his head.

Unless Landry has a shoulder growing over his head, that guess as to his motives doesn't really cut it. Also, the rule does not state that it's OK to make contact only with the helmet if we think you meant to do something else.

Your interpretation assumes that all penalties are intentional, which they surely are not. Instead of a tackle, Landry went to make a "hit" and that hit was delivered with his helmet which is a penalty regardless of his intention. And, per the posters and Al Michaels, it's not OK to do to a running back.

patfanken · 11-24-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

He went with his shoulder and Edelman dropped his head.

That's right. It was Edelman who lower his head and initiated the contact.

No one did anything wrong.

OTOH, I don't can't see what else Dennard could have done to avoid hitting the Receiver in the head when he got his Personal Foul call. The guy was about 2 feet above the ground. There wasn't anywhere else to hit him. His only alternative would have been not to hit him at all

***Deus Irae*** · 11-24-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayClay

Unless Landry has a shoulder growing over his head, that guess as to his motives doesn't really cut it...

There's no guess needed about any motive. It's on the tape. There's a clear look of Edelman ducking into it at the 9-10 second mark, and the 12-13 second mark is even more clear.

RayClay · 11-24-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

That's right. It was Edelman who lower his head and initiated the contact.

No one did anything wrong.

OTOH, I don't can't see what else Dennard could have done to avoid hitting the Receiver in the head when he got his Personal Foul call. The guy was about 2 feet above the ground. There wasn't anywhere else to hit him. His only alternative would have been not to hit him at all

Nevertheless, there is nothing in the rule regarding an offensive players positioning of his head. Landry could have tried to tackle him, he didn't. It was not incidental contact, it was the only contact.

Quote:

If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:

The bolded section is before the "defenseless" portion.

Quote:

Note: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactics, the covering official(s) should always call unnecessary roughness.

Certainly dangerous, it likely caused a concussion.

If there's a rule that says it's OK to make a hit with your helmet if the other guy dropped his, or you meant to do something else, I'm up to reading that.

In the meantime, aren't defensive players called for less and isn't the league trying to curtail the use of the helmet through techniques dsigned to hit rather than tackle, which causes injuries?

RayClay · 11-24-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

There's no guess needed about any motive. It's on the tape. There's a clear look of Edelman ducking into it at the 9-10 second mark, and the 12-13 second mark is even more clear.

What rule prohibits that?

UK_Pat37 · 11-24-2012, 01:08 PM

Nothing wrong with the hit at all. Whoever wote hat SB Nation piece has no idea.

He's not defenceless, he's a ball carrier, and the hit is perfectly legal. Nature of the sport.

Never left his feet either...so it was hardly a spear.

RayClay · 11-24-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UK_Pat37

Nothing wrong with the hit at all. Whoever wote hat SB Nation piece has no idea.

He's not defenceless, he's a ball carrier, and the hit is perfectly legal. Nature of the sport.

Never left his feet either...so it was hardly a spear.

It has nothing to do with being defenseless, it's the part of the rule before that. The SB article quoted Al Michaels, who said what you said.

I didn't say it was "wrong" I said it was a penalty under NFL rules and I quoted the rule.