Idle thoughts - TC - the early days - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard
NEWS
|
FORUM
|
PHOTOS
|
VIDEOS
|
FULL STATS DATABASE
|
PODCAST
|
RUMOR MILL
Get Social With PatsFans.com
Early Roster Projection
Ryan's Journey Started Early
POST DRAFT PODCAST

Go Back   New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard > PatsFans.com Forums > PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum
Forgot Password? Join PatsFans.com!
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read Chat Room

WELCOME TO OUR FORUM HERE AT PATSFANS.COM!
ARE YOU NEW HERE? NOT LOGGED IN? PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AND LOGIN TO REMOVE THIS WINDOW

Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification window. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!

Like Tree28Likes

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2012, 06:35 PM   #1
In the Starting Line-up
 
patfanken's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canton MA
Posts: 4,872
My Mood: Buzzed
Default Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

Haven't had one of these in a while and I thought that a day off at TC would be a good time to put a few random and unconnected thoughts on "paper".

1. Its one thing to give props to Jeramaine Cunningham for winning one of the 10 parking spaces for his off season excellence. Its another thing to hear his name being mentioned in the same breath with terms like "burst" and "turning the corner".

I don't think enough credit was given to Cunningham for his first year here. Its been well documented that the transition from a college DE to a 2 gap - 3-4 OLB is one of the most difficult. It took guys like Vrable, Colvin, and Ninko 4 or 5 years to fully grasp the position and become impact players. The fact that Cunningham was forced into a starting position so early and wasn't a liability is a compliment. That Mike Reiss mentioned, that he had 23 QB pressures was even more impressive, given that he didn't seem to have that "burst" that excites us all in our pass rushers.

Cunningham can only blame himself for last year's lost season. Clearly, left on his own, he didn't respond well to the lockout. He came into camp out of shape, got injured, was passed by Anderson and Carter, and wound up on IR midway through the season. He deserved the results he created by his own lack of professionalism. What he didn't deserve was for fans to ignore his rookie accomplishments and their dismissals for his 2nd season failures Its one thing to be "disappointed" with a player's season, but its another to dismiss him simply because he screwed up early in his career.

So while we all (myself included) revelled in our shinny new toys like Jones, Hightower, Bequette, and Scott, Cunningham was quietly busy learning the lessons of the 2011 season and grinding away in the Pats new weight room. The end result being a "new" Jermaine Cunningham. The guy who can NOW be associated with terms like "sudden" and "burst"

Now this is a development that isn't earth shaking or impactful to the Pats overall success this season. But it IS a nice redemptive story and adds depth to a position that is so full of promise, yet has little proven success. It bares watching.

2. In a very similar vein, its interesting to read that Ron Brace has been "flashing" early on in the first 2 days of padded practices. This will be Brace's 4th season as a Patriot. The first was utterly disappointing for a 2nd round pick. His second was much improved and on the rise until he was cut down by an injury late in the season. An injury that carried over into last season, severely limiting his progress and production.

This truly is a do or die season for Brace if he wants to continue with the Pats. Its a good sign that he's "flashing" somewhat. We need some big bodies in the trenches

3. I know he's been the subject of much debate already, but it WILL be interesting to see if Julian Edelman can become something more than "just" a special teams, jack of all trades player. He's the 3rd player that we've heard about, who has "flashed" to observers thus far, that we didn't expected much from going into camp

TC is very important to him to show that he has made the leap from QB to WR, because, barring an injury to Welker, its very unlikely that he's going to get many snaps at the slot position. Still it would be good to see him have a productive preseason. It will quiet the haters, comfort us knowing we have good depth at the position, AND let the Pats know that they may already have an adequate replacement for Welker after this season.

4. Speaking of pleasant surprises. I'm happy to hear that Chandler Jones has already started to stand out in camp. Its come earlier than I expected or was led to believe.

5. Less surprising but no less comforting, are the reports of Donta Hightower looking like a man among boys early in camp. It will be interesting to see where and how the Pats will use this weapon because that's what he is going to be.

6. Last season the Pats ranked 14th in sacks with 40, just 2 sacks away from being in the top 10. That was an excellent performance give the Pats had just 3 guys that one would consider legit Pass rushers (Carter, Anderson and Ninko) THIS season Reiss, in a recent report named 10 though 4 were more inside pocket pushers than true rushers ( Vince, Deadrick, Brace, and Love)

However in Ninko, Jones, Bequette, Scott, Cunningham, Fenene, and Hightower there are now 7 guys who can be considered or at least have the potential to be legit pass rush threats, and add Carter in late August and we've almost tripled the number of pass rush options than we had last season

7. So what is left to find out over the next 5 weeks? Well the most critical element IMHO is the secondary. A hard area to evaluate when you aren't in a game situation I think the joint practices with the Saints will be a good place to start.

8 Other nice surprises thus far....according to those who have watched the practices

a. Will Allen looks good at safety and still very fast as such an advanced age.

b. Nate Solder looks bigger and stronger and ready to take the next step as the Pats new LT

c. Lloyd is everything we've hoped for so far

d. the "screen" is back, baby

e. Hard to believe, but Aaron Hernandez looks even better

9. Other interesting things I'm looking forward to seeing over the course of next month

a. Is Ryan Mallet just a strong armed kid who can't process fast enough to make good decisions, or will he win the back up job and become the next pawn in BB's plan to restock the draft machine

b. Can Brian Hoyer show enough to worth a draft pick to someone.

c. Who gets to stay among Branch, Stallworth, Davis, and Gaffney

d. Who among the RB's emerges, and which FB survives

e. A Daniel Fells sighting.

10. Pet peeves

a. I love Greg Bedard, but I still can't figure out how he can so definitively grade those one on one battles from so far away. I have to believe someone is slipping him the practice tape

b. The Concussion suits. - Every time I see a new entry to this money grab, I can only think of the Casablanca scene when Louis says to Rick, "I am shocked to find out that there is Gambling going on in this club".....and then accepts his winnings.

To think that Players didn't know that large men running at high speeds into one another didn't hold some potential long term health risks aren't being honest. No one is THAT stupid. Just another example of our need to blame someone for everything. Another example of not taking responsibility for our own actions, AND another example of the misuse of our legal system (which needs reform badly) to make a money grab.

c. People who make judgments based on just 2 practices with pads
patfanken is offline  
FEATURED ADVERTISEMENT
DONATE TO PATSFANS.COM
RECEIVE A FREE PATS T-SHIRT AND SAVE 15% OFF WHEN YOU BUY FROM THE OFFICIAL PROSHOP!

Free T-Shirt & Save 15% Off!
Like Our Site? Please help support our site and server costs by DONATING TO PATSFANS.COM and receive a FREE PATRIOTS T-SHIRT and SAVE 15% off EVERY purchase you make from PatriotsProShop.com. You'll also receive added benefits to your account
including Removing All Ads During Your Experience Here At Our Forum.

NEEDED YEARLY SITE DONATIONS: 345 | CURRENT # OF SUBSCRIBED SUPPORTERS: 98

Updated 07/08/11

Help Us Reach Our Goal!

Old 07-30-2012, 06:52 PM   #2
Maude
 
shmessy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 16,050
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

Quote:
Originally Posted by patfanken View Post
6. Last season the Pats ranked 14th in sacks with 40, just 2 sacks away from being in the top 10. That was an excellent performance give the Pats had just 3 guys that one would consider legit Pass rushers (Carter, Anderson and Ninko) THIS season Reiss, in a recent report named 10 though 4 were more inside pocket pushers than true rushers ( Vince, Deadrick, Brace, and Love)

However in Ninko, Jones, Bequette, Scott, Cunningham, Fenene, and Hightower there are now 7 guys who can be considered or at least have the potential to be legit pass rush threats, and add Carter in late August and we've almost tripled the number of pass rush options than we had last season
Interestingly enough, I think the 2012 Patriots sack leader will be someone you didn't even list......... a certain Tenn alum who had a cameo in the Three Stooges movie this summer.

BB will use him as he hasn't yet been allowed to use him - - because he doesn't have to be the babysitter of the LB corps anymore.
__________________
"They (Patriots) may be the greatest team ever" - Chris Mortenson, January 18, 2005 on espn.com
shmessy is offline  
Old 07-30-2012, 07:49 PM   #3
Second Team and Threatening Starter's Job
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,474
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

9a. Most everyone else we learn more about during the regular season. Now is the only time we get to learn about mallet (I hope!)
PatsFan37 is offline  
Old 07-30-2012, 07:57 PM   #4
PatsFans.com Supporter
 
reflexblue's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: East Cup Cake
Posts: 16,531
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

Quote:
Originally Posted by patfanken View Post
Haven't had one of these in a while and I thought that a day off at TC would be a good time to put a few random and unconnected thoughts on "paper".

1. Its one thing to give props to Jeramaine Cunningham for winning one of the 10 parking spaces for his off season excellence. Its another thing to hear his name being mentioned in the same breath with terms like "burst" and "turning the corner".

I don't think enough credit was given to Cunningham for his first year here. Its been well documented that the transition from a college DE to a 2 gap - 3-4 OLB is one of the most difficult. It took guys like Vrable, Colvin, and Ninko 4 or 5 years to fully grasp the position and become impact players. The fact that Cunningham was forced into a starting position so early and wasn't a liability is a compliment. That Mike Reiss mentioned, that he had 23 QB pressures was even more impressive, given that he didn't seem to have that "burst" that excites us all in our pass rushers.

Cunningham can only blame himself for last year's lost season. Clearly, left on his own, he didn't respond well to the lockout. He came into camp out of shape, got injured, was passed by Anderson and Carter, and wound up on IR midway through the season. He deserved the results he created by his own lack of professionalism. What he didn't deserve was for fans to ignore his rookie accomplishments and their dismissals for his 2nd season failures Its one thing to be "disappointed" with a player's season, but its another to dismiss him simply because he screwed up early in his career.

So while we all (myself included) reveled in our shinny new toys like Jones, Hightower, Bequette, and Scott, Cunningham was quietly busy learning the lessons of the 2011 season and grinding away in the Pats new weight room. The end result being a "new" Jermaine Cunningham. The guy who can NOW be associated with terms like "sudden" and "burst"

Now this is a development that isn't earth shaking or impactful to the Pats overall success this season. But it IS a nice redemptive story and adds depth to a position that is so full of promise, yet has little proven success. It bares watching.
Cunningham just showed too much promise in his first year to be a fluke. Something happened last year whether it was the lockout, immaturity, or a nagging injury. Maybe a combination of all of these and some we don't know about. While a lot of fans have written him off as a bust i haven't. I think he'll show something like he did in his first year. The only question i have is its awfully crowded at that position, so will he have real chance to show what he has.
patsfan13 and Gwedd like this.
reflexblue is offline  
Old 07-30-2012, 07:59 PM   #5
In the Starting Line-up
 
fnordcircle's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,035
My Mood: Angelic
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

Quote:
Originally Posted by patfanken View Post
b. The Concussion suits. - Every time I see a new entry to this money grab, I can only think of the Casablanca scene when Louis says to Rick, "I am shocked to find out that there is Gambling going on in this club".....and then accepts his winnings.

To think that Players didn't know that large men running at high speeds into one another didn't hold some potential long term health risks aren't being honest. No one is THAT stupid. Just another example of our need to blame someone for everything. Another example of not taking responsibility for our own actions, AND another example of the misuse of our legal system (which needs reform badly) to make a money grab.

c. People who make judgments based on just 2 practices with pads
This is a gross oversimplification. It's reminiscent of the same glib comments people would make about the McDonald's Coffee lawsuit. Which was a lawsuit where a woman was burned so bad she needed skin grafts on her groin because the coffee she spilled on herself was hotter than McDonald's own policy.

Simply put, despite the fact that it is a violent game players have no say in what equipment they wear. That is handled by the NFL via their endorsement deals with Reebok, etc. Did you know, for instance, that the foam used in NFL helmets is not the best foam that could be used to reduce impact trauma?

Your argument is no different than saying 'Flying is a dangerous thing so airline pilots have no right to sue if they find out that their airline is cutting costs at the expense of flight safety.'

Beyond that if you do not find the NFL's treatment, or lack thereof, of veterans who played through multiple concussions and end up having major problems later in life (Corwin Brown, Junior Seau) absolutely repugnant then I question your priorities.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

fnordcircle is online now  
Old 07-30-2012, 08:22 PM   #6
PatsFans.com Supporter
 
mayoclinic's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,780
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

I don't know where to put this, so I'll stick it under your "Idle Thoughts" thread, Ken. NFL.com's Gregg Rosenthal lists "5 leading rookies" of interest at this early juncture. Two of them play for the Pats:

Quote:
1. New England Patriots linebacker Dont'a Hightower: As Albert Breer pointed out, Bill Belichick has lavished praise on Hightower. The last time we saw him praise a rookie this much was Jerod Mayo and that worked out well. Hightower is very intelligent and versatile, two qualities Belichick prizes most. Hightower should start right away and might make a quicker impact than buzzier rookie Chandler Jones.

5. Patriots running back Brandon Bolden: Running back certainly is a position where you can make a quick impact. Bolden consistently has made noise early in camp. Some have suggested he looks more explosive than last year's second-round draft pick Shane Vereen.
Dont'a Hightower, Doug Martin among leading rookies - NFL.com

Not too shabby.
PatsBoy12 likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"OVER Loading at ANY position can create a Fatal Advantage. THAT is what interests ME. Attacking With Concentrated Force. THAT is what WINS. In the words ~ more or less ~ of General Patton: 'I'm fighting a WAR, here. Let the B*****ES worry about their FLANKS.' " - Off the Grid

"The key to any successful organization is to anticipate things, not react to them." - Michael Lombardi
mayoclinic is offline  
Old 07-30-2012, 08:31 PM   #7
In the Starting Line-up
 
BlueThunder's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Onset, Mass
Posts: 2,818
My Mood: Inspired
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

peterforpats and Gwedd like this.
__________________
My guns are no threat to anyone who isn't trying to deprive me or my family of life,liberty or property. They are,however, EXTREMELY dangerous to anyone who threatens to take those things.
BlueThunder is offline  
Old 07-30-2012, 09:09 PM   #8
Practice Squad
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: bronson,fl.
Posts: 119
My Mood: Amused
Unhappy Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

re: players lawsuits
not all lawsuits are "money grabs" some have merit. ithink the treatment of former players is a real stain in the record of the nfl. like everything, it is just my humble opinion, but all leagues don't do enough vis-a-vis the older past players. i don't begrudge them trying to get more after years of providing for our entertainment. i know how everyone thinks they all made a "ton" of money, but not all did(especially the old-timers).it is too easy to forget how important they all were for creating the popularity of their sports.the greatest team sport athlete in history- bill russell- made $100,001 in his best years. think about that and think what a benchwarmer makes today!!
peterforpats is offline  
Old 07-30-2012, 10:22 PM   #9
All Pro Poster
 
PATSYLICIOUS's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,223
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

Always enjoy your posts Ken.
Be awesome if Cunningham and/or Brace could contribute this year. Both were disappointing after holding their own when being thrust into early action (remember Brace did start a game in late '09 @ Buffalo). Would really help the front 7 depth.
Gwedd likes this.
__________________
Organized madness
The young Gott-stra
Young Frank Sinatra

Last edited by PATSYLICIOUS; 07-30-2012 at 10:22 PM..
PATSYLICIOUS is offline  
Old 07-30-2012, 10:42 PM   #10
In the Starting Line-up
 
patfanken's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canton MA
Posts: 4,872
My Mood: Buzzed
Default Re: Idle thoughts - TC - the early days

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterforpats View Post
re: players lawsuits
not all lawsuits are "money grabs" some have merit. ithink the treatment of former players is a real stain in the record of the nfl. like everything, it is just my humble opinion, but all leagues don't do enough vis-a-vis the older past players. i don't begrudge them trying to get more after years of providing for our entertainment. i know how everyone thinks they all made a "ton" of money, but not all did(especially the old-timers).it is too easy to forget how important they all were for creating the popularity of their sports.the greatest team sport athlete in history- bill russell- made $100,001 in his best years. think about that and think what a benchwarmer makes today!!
I don't doubt that some of the law suits could have merit. And I don't doubt that a lot of older players who are participating in the class action suits are doing so because of the shabby treatment given to them by the last few generations of players who benefited from their efforts.

While the NFL should share some of the blame in this, the greater blame should be heaped on the NFLPA who have squandered multiple opportunities to solve those problems in the last few CBA negotiations. Each time the NFLPA chose immediate benefits to their current players at the expense of their former colleagues.
p
The league should have done more. The "union" definitely should have done more. But also some of the players themselves should have done more to prepare for their own retirements. The league shouldn't be responsible for taking care of players for the rest of their lives. Especially when you consider the kind of money that even the lowest paid players are getting.
patfanken is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Sponsored Links



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Idle thoughts.....and the rant continues, and other assorted thoughts patfanken PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 50 02-02-2012 11:36 PM
idle thoughts - quick post game thoughts patfanken PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 48 12-05-2011 02:00 AM
Idle thoughts - post game thoughts patfanken PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 38 11-02-2010 10:29 PM
Idle thoughts - idle week... patfanken PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 25 10-14-2010 12:13 PM
Idle thoughts - not so idle tonight patfanken PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum 51 09-13-2010 08:38 PM



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

© Copyright 2000-2012. PatsFans.com Is a Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties.
The opinions posted in this forum do not necessarily reflect the opinions of our staff at PatsFans.com or USA Today.
We are not affiliated with the New England Patriots™ or the NFL™. The Photo Used In the header was taken by Ian Logue.

This site is owned and operated by I&K Internet Design Enterprises, LLC


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563