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Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pat
Even if he turns out to be Ronnie Lott, it is still an awful pick.
The Pats do not draft according to consensus rankings. They seek out players who fit their system based on specific criteria. The Pats scouts and coaches know this criteria, the Kipers of the world do not.
Some sleeper picks are known, and some are not. Facts are -- some do succeed. And when they do, they become known as draft day steals. And if they play like Ronnie Lott -- the HOF awaits. But can we please allow him to don a Pats uni first...
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"What we want to try to do is maximize each spot on the roster; we want to be stronger at No. 1 than the opponent, stronger at No. 25 than they are, and stronger at No. 53 than they are, we're always looking to upgrade the talent level on the team, and play together to be functional."
- Bill Belichick -
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Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsfan13
Kiper has his board which is based on his abstraction of talent. The Patriots have their board based on talent. However the analysis for the Patriots includes how a player fits THEIR SCHEME and THEIR LOCKER ROOM. Kiper little book doesn't and really can't factor that in for 32 teams.
When Kiper criticizes a team when the diverge from his board it is silly since he doesn't know a teams scheme and loker room needs as well as teams with competent management and team philosophy.
BTW making the Patriots roster is a lot tougher than making a lot of other rosters.
As evidenced by Sergio Brown, Ray Ventrone and Tiquan Underwood
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayClay
I don't. Seems to me he is totally mystified by some pretty decent picks and touts lots of busts every year.
If he's clueless about Tavon, I'm actually encouraged. Who's to say a few coaches didn't go to Illinois looking for someone else and made a note about this guy?
What exactly does Kyper know about playing football anyway? I don't think BB decides to spend a two on a seventh round pick for no reason, I really don't.
Someone mentioned that Wilson had 6 or 7 team visits in the couple weeks leading up to the draft.
As for Kiper, he's a Buschbaum wannabe. The problem is that Kiper couldn't lift one of Buschbaum's notepads on a player.
The more and more it goes, the more and more I feel that Kiper some how feels insulted that he never has had any of the teams coming to him to ask his opinion on players the way that Buschbaum had. Heck, I know that BB tried to hire Buschbaum when BB first got the Cleveland job and then, again when BB got the Pats job. But Buschbaum turned him down because Buschbaum was too much of a Giant's fan..
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayClay
I don't. Seems to me he is totally mystified by some pretty decent picks and touts lots of busts every year.
How's that different from the coaches?
__________________
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
- Marcus Aurelius
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brady'sButtBoy
Hey, I hope you're right. Your assessment here makes sense. But NFP, among others, didn't even list Wilson among the 30+ safeties rated for the draft - half of which weren't likely to be drafted at all.
I don't complain about BB's picks - I give them and BB some time - but this pick is so far off primarily because of the talent still on the board that had to be rated much, much higher even by the Pats. There were still several 1st round talents hanging around when Wilson was picked. That's what makes this a deflating pick. Vinny Curry or Tavin Wilson? Rueben Randle or Wilson? I could go on the point is obvious...
Here's the thing. BB clearly had Bequette and Wilson rated higher than Curry. So what does it matter if Curry was rated as a 1st rounder by some hack site? The Pats didn't have a 1st round grade on him. And they clearly didn't have a 2nd round grade on Curry or they'd have taken him over settling for Bequette.
As for Reuben Randle, the Pats are stacked at WR currently with only 1 space open really and they have 4 or 5 players already fighting for it. They could have tried to trade down and got no offers, but we don't know.
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback
As evidenced by Sergio Brown, Ray Ventrone and Tiquan Underwood
And Gronk, Hernandez Brady........
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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by supafly
I don't know if it's as much against Kiper personally, as he probably seems to do around the same percentage wise as most of the other draft 'experts.'
I think it's more about Belichick and his staff doing things their way, kind of along the vein that Michael Holley's "War Room" speaks of. There are many times where Belichick disagrees with most of the other analysts, and he tends to rate players differently.
There's no way that Kiper can have any clue about some of the more un recognizable players in the draft, those who are less known. There's also no way that Kiper knows anything about how our specific needs are looked at, and how the player may project into our scheme here.
We've seen plenty of WTF picks before, so I'm not going to worry too much about it; though I will admit that my humble fandom point of view wanted someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsfan13
Kiper has his board which is based on his abstraction of talent. The Patriots have their board based on talent. However the analysis for the Patriots includes how a player fits THEIR SCHEME and THEIR LOCKER ROOM. Kiper little book doesn't and really can't factor that in for 32 teams.
When Kiper criticizes a team when the diverge from his board it is silly since he doesn't know a teams scheme and loker room needs as well as teams with competent management and team philosophy.
BTW making the Patriots roster is a lot tougher than making a lot of other rosters.
My thoughts pretty much exactly.
It seems as though many people continue to overlook this aspect of the drafting process.
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Patiently waiting to defend the next "bubble" player in this summer's training camp.....
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pat
Even if he turns out to be Ronnie Lott, it is still an awful pick. Even if the Pats heard. other teams think he was moving up their draft boards it was still an awfull pick. For this player to go anywhere near the 2nd means the pats did not optimize their value.
Than when you combine that with a wierd trade of a 2 for a low 3 and a low 5, this was a horrible night all around for the Pats. hell they probably could have drafted ilson with the low 5th they got a for a 2. 2nd rd draft picks are valuable commodities, BB traded it away like it had herpes. Love day 1, hate day 2.
So if he turns into Ronnie Lott you're going to be pissed that we spent a mid round 2nd on him instead of picking up 2 or 3 more draft picks that potentially pan out to be nothing?
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
NE Patriots Draft made the point that the Wilson pick is evidence that the Patriots board is the smallest in the NFL. They are clearly much more discriminatory in removing people from their board altogether - that's why supposed reaches get quicker to the Pats than they do other teams.
44Likes
Re: Do you think Kiper knows what the coaches know?
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