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Old 06-28-2011, 05:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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Originally Posted by crowell33 View Post
Unless we sign him for cheap money, I'm not on the Roth band wagon. While he could fit in a 3-4, I don't think he brings a lot to the table. Yes, he can set the edge but as a pass rusher he not very dynamic.
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Old 06-28-2011, 05:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

My bet is the Patriots do not sign any free-agent OLB - only because everyone thinks the team needs to sign one (including me).
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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I wasn't saying anything negative about Cunningham. My point was that sacks+hurries+hits= X formula is kind of flawed.

Let's say guy A has 10 sacks, 0 hurrires, 0 hits.

And guy B has 0 sacks, 12 hurries, 2 hits.

By that formula guy B would be the better rusher if they both had equal amount of snaps rushing the passer.

A sack should be worth atleast 3 points or something like that.
There really is another consideration in all of this. A full-time pass rusher will be in on over 400 pass plays. Granted that a lot of those plays aren't real opportunities (screens, quick slants, etc.) but even cutting the number in half, a guy with 10 sacks has a 95% failure rate.

I believe a key for the Patriots is what players do in those other 190+ snaps. Much like a "useful out" in baseball, there are many meaningful outcomes that don't show up as stats:
- Keeping a QB contained in the pocket
- Being physical and wearing out an OT
- Getting hands up and disrupting the QB's line of sight
- Requiring extra blocking focus to allow others to get better matchups
- Engaging a RB/TE and not letting them out into their pass route cleanly

There are probably more but you get the idea. The Pats have avoided guys that dive into the backfield with their hair on fire every play. If they just wanted sacks and "pressures", that strategy wouldn't make much sense. So they must be looking for something more in players that make up their pass rush. Getting 10 sacks but getting neatly escorted around the pocket with a single blocker on another 200 plays doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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My bet is the Patriots do not sign any free-agent OLB - only because everyone thinks the team needs to sign one (including me).




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Old 06-28-2011, 07:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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The problem with this list is that profootballfocus doesn't realize that a sack doesn't equal a hurry...

Actually the ranking values hurries and hits at 3/4 of a sack, so sack doesn't equal a hurry just as you wish.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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Originally Posted by Metaphors View Post

There really is another consideration in all of this. A full-time pass rusher will be in on over 400 pass plays. Granted that a lot of those plays aren't real opportunities (screens, quick slants, etc.) but even cutting the number in half, a guy with 10 sacks has a 95% failure rate.

I believe a key for the Patriots is what players do in those other 190+ snaps. Much like a "useful out" in baseball, there are many meaningful outcomes that don't show up as stats:
- Keeping a QB contained in the pocket
- Being physical and wearing out an OT
- Getting hands up and disrupting the QB's line of sight
- Requiring extra blocking focus to allow others to get better matchups
- Engaging a RB/TE and not letting them out into their pass route cleanly

There are probably more but you get the idea. The Pats have avoided guys that dive into the backfield with their hair on fire every play. If they just wanted sacks and "pressures", that strategy wouldn't make much sense. So they must be looking for something more in players that make up their pass rush.

Getting 10 sacks but getting neatly escorted around the pocket with a single blocker on another 200 plays doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.
Lost me on the change from 400 to 200, but, all in all, a tremendous Post.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

You guys note the post about Ninkovich at the bottom of that article? Where it says that with 28 more snaps he would be ranked #11?

Which is just ahead of Clay Matthews?!

I know, it's PFF...
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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What if the hurries caused Int's ? How do you score it?
what if the hurries cause TD throws?
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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Originally Posted by randomk1 View Post
From 2008 to 2010 Matt Roth is a top 10 pass rusher in terms of effectiveness??? How exactly do most coaches in the NFL miss that?

They rank Tamba Hali as #6 on their list but wasn't he considered somewhat of a disappointment before this year? When he was converted into a 3-4 olb..
Yes, he was nothing special.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Many Top Pass Rushers to become F/A:

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Originally Posted by Richard Camembert View Post
You guys note the post about Ninkovich at the bottom of that article? Where it says that with 28 more snaps he would be ranked #11?

Which is just ahead of Clay Matthews?!

I know, it's PFF...
I like PFF as long as it doesn't involve their garbage scoring system. When they stick to stats, I can handle it. And this just made my day
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