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Old 12-13-2012, 06:53 AM   #211
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

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Like most of you here, I watch a lot of NFL football. I can't recall once this season seeing a PI call waived due to a pass being ruled uncatchable. Does anyone know if that rule is still on the books?
A QB can stay in the pocket, fire the ball 10 yards over the receiver's head into the end zone bleachers, and no penalty for grounding. A QB can clear the pocket, then throw it away over the sideline benches....no call again.
The "benefit of the doubt" is given to the QB all over the field. It may be designed this to "protect" the passer, but a residual effect is to keep the flow of the game moving forward.

The uncatchable throw.....lots of elements for the one ref to process. First, the ref has to see the interference infraction. Then the ref has to move his line of sight to the ball. Then the ref has to determine if the QB altered his pass based on the contact. Then. they must decifer if the ball was in the air before contact? To get it right, the refs may need to consult three different officials to determine act, intention, timing. Too much

And lets not forget the safety issue....do DBs get free shots at WRs on overthrown balls.

Too much. The lack of calls in recent years shows me that the league wants to keep it simple. Worry about the contact....unless it is so egregious.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:06 AM   #212
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

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Yes it's still on the books...but from what I understand, alot of the QB's have told the officials that the times that the ball is thrown away is because of the penalty and the receiver not being able to get open ......but ya know..if they are calling it liberally on both teams..it's ok with me......I'll ask Ed Hoculi this weekend his opinion when I see him pregame
In those situations, the penalty shouldn't be PI anyway. If the infraction occurs before the ball is thrown, it's either going to be defensive holding or illegal contact.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:09 AM   #213
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

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A QB can stay in the pocket, fire the ball 10 yards over the receiver's head into the end zone bleachers, and no penalty for grounding.I think the key is "Over the receivers head" We saw Brady called for IG in the EZ because he didn't throw it in the direction of the receiver. He thought the receiver was doing an "in" route but he went "out" with his route. They had the 5 ref conference and thrwe a flag. That cost us 3 points and in the long run..the game A QB can clear the pocket, then throw it away over the sideline benches....no call again.
They can also spike a ball the the feet of their center ..an ineligible receiver, with no call
The "benefit of the doubt" is given to the QB all over the field. It may be designed this to "protect" the passer, but a residual effect is to keep the flow of the game moving forward.

The uncatchable throw.....lots of elements for the one ref to process. First, the ref has to see the interference infraction. Then the ref has to move his line of sight to the ball. Then the ref has to determine if the QB altered his pass based on the contact. Then. they must decifer if the ball was in the air before contact? To get it right, the refs may need to consult three different officials to determine act, intention, timing. Too much
I disagree..."nothing should be "Too much" for refs. There are enough of them out there where each on can have a responsibility on a play like that...c'mon..let's face it..even we as fans watching know if it was thrown away on purpose or if a penalty occurred..lol

And lets not forget the safety issue....do DBs get free shots at WRs on overthrown balls.

Too much. The lack of calls in recent years shows me that the league wants to keep it simple. Worry about the contact....unless it is so egregious.

Seems this simple judgement call rule has turned into more than it should be....if there is a PI penalty involved and the ball is thrown away....well...but if there is no call...that tells me that the defender disrupted the route enough to throw the timing off and that there still was a possibility of a completion if the QB and receiver adjusted or if the QB went to a different receiver..ya ya ya..the speed of the game..I know
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:29 AM   #214
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Default Re: Explaining that illegal formation penalty

What does the term "covered up" mean in terms of formation rules? Could it be said that the LT wasn't covered up?
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:36 AM   #215
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

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In those situations, the penalty shouldn't be PI anyway. If the infraction occurs before the ball is thrown, it's either going to be defensive holding or illegal contact.
Here's the thing.....your the official stationed behind the QB... your responsibilities include looking for O line holding calls, illegal motion, too many men, QB in the pocket, QB roughing, late hits......then you are asked to know at what point a down field infraction occurs in your field of view 40 yards wide while looking over 6'8" linemen. If a ref is watching late contact on the QB, how in the world can he also know where and when down field contact occurred. Too much to ask....thus I suspect the officials just worry about contact only

I'm an official at swim meets. Been doing it for years. The hardest part of the job is relays...determining if a diver leaves before the wall touch of the swimmer in the water. And the space between the wall and the dive platform is only two feet, that's it. And it's impossible to see both at the same time. Your eyes have to leave one line of sight to view the other....and this takes a split second....and I know exactly where I need to look. And in swimming, there are two judges that must confer and agree....and I can't tell you how often the officials disagree on what they think they see. And when they disagree, the swimmer gets the benefit of the doubt. The ref that calls the PI is expected to view the infraction, then change his line of sight, locate the moving ball, then make a mental calculation if the ball was catchable factoring in receiver speed, receiver line, ball velocity, ball line, etc etc. Too much
neuronet and Danger Zone like this.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:51 AM   #216
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

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One explanation I heard is that officials are trained to watch the players, not the ball.
Then why not call holding, or illegal contact? It's not like it's either call pass interference or no calls at all.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:55 AM   #217
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

I've seen it called this year. It's a tough call to make because, presumably, the WR has been impeded so it's difficult to say whether the ball was really uncatchable if it was overthrown. I generally recall seeing that call made on sideline patterns where the WR would have had to be OOB to catch the ball. It's much more black/white in that situation.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:39 AM   #218
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

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Originally Posted by Jackson 2 View Post
Like most of you here, I watch a lot of NFL football. I can't recall once this season seeing a PI call waived due to a pass being ruled uncatchable. Does anyone know if that rule is still on the books?
You're not alone, I have NEVER seen it. The thing that pisses me off is commentators only seem to mention it when we benefit from one like against Buffalo and Houston. Honestly I've seen flags thrown every time contact is made with a WR unless it's like a mile out of bounds.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:05 AM   #219
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Default Re: Explaining that illegal formation penalty

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Originally Posted by ForThoseAboutToRock View Post
What does the term "covered up" mean in terms of formation rules? Could it be said that the LT wasn't covered up?
Yes, it means that the LT was the last person on the left side of the offense on the line of scrimmage. The rule is there needs to be an 'eligible receiver' as the last person on the line of scrimmage on the left side of the line. (or right side)


The real person at fault is Schaub, how can he run the play after checking over his formation? Just shows you they weren't ready to play.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #220
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Default Re: Uncatchable Ball PI Calls

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Originally Posted by PATSYLICIOUS View Post
You're not alone, I have NEVER seen it. The thing that pisses me off is commentators only seem to mention it when we benefit from one like against Buffalo and Houston. Honestly I've seen flags thrown every time contact is made with a WR unless it's like a mile out of bounds.
You probably never seen it because it's rare for an official to throw a flag and then pick it up. Commentators (just like viewers) try to figure out why refs do what they do and most of the time they are just guessing rather than knowing what's going through the refs head.
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