A trade that absolutely needs to happen next season - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

Prufrock · 12-03-2006, 09:37 AM

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but what if Brady gets hurt? then whos a QB..hes a good backup for us.

You sign a veteran to play band-aid for a few years (backup quarterbacks always seem to be floating around), then draft someone young the Patriots can groom.

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Sorry, no one thinks more highly of Cassell than I do, but getting a first day pick for him is not going to happen.

Yeah, I never once suggested that anyone would trade a pick for him straight up. I suggested packaging other picks with him. Do you think that no one would take a chance with Cassell, when all they would risk is moving down in the first round? Think about how many QB busts their have been. I think there is a much smaller risk with Cassell then there is with some unproven rookie.

***BelichickFan*** · 12-03-2006, 09:40 AM

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Originally Posted by MoLewisrocks

Until we get another promising youngster in the mix, Matt represents the best insurance we've had at that position since...Brady.

Which is why I expect a QB to be drafted on the second day this year to have a year behind Cassel who we can still trade before the 2008 draft.

The next young QB is actually interesting because he could be the long term replacement if he's good. Brady is 30, if we sign a guy this year or next to a 4 year deal, Brady would be around 35 at the end of the new guy's first contract. At that point it would be possible that we move on with that guy if he's looking good and if Brady is ready to move on (with 3 SB already, he may not play beyond 35).

Mainefan · 12-03-2006, 09:43 AM

Sorry, Prufrock, we need to KEEP Cassell. We need to keep him for exactly the same reason we kept Brady when we had Bledsoe. It is just too easy to imagine a moment when Cassell could salvage a season.

What we don't want is a mediocre backup who, if Brady gets injured, can make sure we don't forfeit a game, but nothing more. Cassell, I think, gives us a chance of winning--even if Brady goes down. This makes him an enormous asset.

Prufrock · 12-03-2006, 09:45 AM

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Sorry, Prufrock, we need to KEEP Cassell. We need to keep him for exactly the same reason we kept Brady when we had Bledsoe. It is just too easy to imagine a moment when Cassell could salvage a season.

The Patriots also need an impact defensive player, and I don't really see any alternative. I think the risk of having a journeyman QB behind Brady for a few years is a much smaller risk than trying to get by without a Rodney Harrison in the lineup.

***BelichickFan*** · 12-03-2006, 09:50 AM

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Originally Posted by NEM

Why would any NFL team give up a first round draft pick, or even a 2nd, and perhaps not even a 3rd, or a quality player, for a quarterback who played less downs, both in college, and in the NFL, than I have fingers on my hands? (approximate)

Not a single person has suggested a #1 or #2.

How many fingers do you have ? And do you remember Week 17 last year ?

jeffd · 12-03-2006, 09:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Prufrock

The Patriots also need an impact defensive player, and I don't really see any alternative. I think the risk of having a journeyman QB behind Brady for a few years is a much smaller risk than trying to get by without a Rodney Harrison in the lineup.

Cassel is worth more to the Pats than any compensation you could reasonably expect. If you can get a day one pick for him straight up, he's not worth much packaged either.
As far as not having an alternative... Wilfork and Warren are both late 1st picks, Samuel is a 4th, Hobbs I forget put no better than 3rd.
Maroney, Graham, Watson and Mankins are also late 1st picks. I confident in what our FO can do with the picks they have.

Prufrock · 12-03-2006, 09:51 AM

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Why would any NFL team give up a first round draft pick, or even a 2nd, and perhaps not even a 3rd, or a quality player, for a quarterback who played less downs, both in college, and in the NFL, than I have fingers on my hands? (approximate)

I am suggesting that they do something like this:

Cassell
1st round (probably around 20ish)
or
Cassell
2nd round
3rd round

for

1st round (probably top 5)

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Wilfork and Warren are both late 1st picks, Samuel is a 4th, Hobbs I forget put no better than 3rd.
Maroney, Graham, Watson and Mankins are also late 1st picks.

They are all great players, but I'm talking about getting a high impact type player here.

***mcbee*** · 12-03-2006, 09:51 AM

I don't think he's looked that good. He's thrown some short passes, scrambled a bit.

Has he thrown a good deep ball? Rifled it between defenders? Dodged sacks with poise and calm? Hit a receiver coming back to him when the play has broken down?

What exactly has he done? Sorry but this is a homer post extraordinaire.

***BelichickFan*** · 12-03-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prufrock

I am suggesting that they do something like this:

Cassell
1st round (probably around 20ish)
or
Cassell
2nd round
3rd round

for

1st round (probably top 5)

Unfortunately you're way off.

If Cassel is worth a low 3 or high 4, he wouldn't move us up far. If our #1 were, say, #26, that value of Cassel would get us to arund #21 or so.

***MoLewisrocks*** · 12-03-2006, 09:56 AM

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Originally Posted by spacecrime

No, that is the maximum, the best case scenario.

The minimum he has left is one snap this afternoon. That is all it takes for a career ending injury.

That is why you need two good RBs and two good QBs. To get rid of Cassell is to lose our insurance.

I am the original Cassell lover, from his first pass in his first mini-camp. It was for me that AJ coined the term Cassell-ite. But there is no way you can get a high draft pick for him. The only way you could do better than a fourth rounder would be for him to play in some games and prove what he has. If you have been a fan long enough to remember Rohan Davey's NFLE MVP season, and what that got him in the NFL, you understand that Cassell has to show it in the regular season. And teh only way for that to happen is for Brady to be hurt, in which case we won't want to trade him.

Sorry, no one thinks more highly of Cassell than I do, but getting a first day pick for him is not going to happen.

I think he showed a lot more than you think in the Miami game last year, against first stringers on a very good defense.

BB has a two track mentality when it comes to backup QB's. First and foremost they represent tremendous value on the roster if they can actually run this offense (which Davey couldn't do even in pre season). Matt has obviously proven to BB that he can, which is why we went without a legitimate #3 for half a season (and still really are minus that...). But he also envisions doing what was done with Young and Favre and Hasselbeck - developing a player other franchises would love to have a chance to draft again. I think Cassel is already worth a late day 1 pick to almost any team with a struggling QB. What it would take for BB to part with him this early is a package of picks or a pick and a player he covets. And as long as Matt continues to develop that price will only go up, whether someone else decides to pay it or not. If not, he still represents tremendous value here and BB will balance that against whatever his market value as a trading chip shakes out to be.

The Schaub situation will be very interesting to watch this season as many teams have tried to pry him away from Atlanta and he is a RFA this season. BB insured that Matt would never be a RFA. Atlanta will have to tender him the top tier ($2M+) and hope somebody who has already coveted him say fine, we'll give him a long term deal you cannot afford to match without cutting bait on the athlete and a 1st and 3rd because we couldn't move up to get say Quinn.