What We've Learned: LB Jermaine Cunningham - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

***AndyJohnson*** · 07-06-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

The only way I can see Cunningham making an immediate impact THIS year is on STs, and as a situational pass rusher. The DE to OLB conversion is NOT a one or even two year process. We won't see the true value of Cunningham until well into his 3rd year. It is what it is. The best we can hope for THIS season is to see the "flashes".

There have been many college DE/pro 34 OLBs who have contributed a lot as rookies.
Its not like he will need to learn an entirely new skillset.
His job, or the job of whoever is the primary OLB is to play the run and rush the passer, about an equal amount of times.
The pass rush skills are not different than what he has done his entire football life, however, he will now be facing tougher competition. Many rookies adapt to that, many dont.
As far as run defense there certainly is change from what he is used to in college, but it isn't rocket science.
I know that the common reposnse will be that he has never covered. OK All of our OLBs COMBINED last season were in coverage 343 times. That amount to about 10 times a game a full time OLB. I don't suppose that a rookie DE-OLB comversion will be as comfortable as a vet, but we are talking about 10 plays a game of covering the flat.
I know it is widely believed that BBs system is so complex that rookies can't be expected to play in it. Here we have abandoned year 2 as well.
I think that most of the reason for this is because BB has done a good job over the years acquiring veterans and keeping them around, especially at the LB position. So there are few early round picks at LB over the BB years, and the ones that were picked were behind great players.

I could be wrong but who are the examples of the guys who sat for 1-2 years playing sts then figured out the system? To me it seems if you are good (Mayo for ex) you get on the field. If you get an opportunity due to lack of players at the position you get on the field (Guyton) if you can't really play (Woods, Alexander) you sit, not because you need years to learn.

BionicPatriot · 07-06-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllegalContact

having cunningham develop quickly and be productive in 2010 would make a HUGE HUGE HUGE! impact for the pats defense. right now, the pass rush from the OLB position stands to be next to non-existent

as for burgess, cheap signing for someone who started playing better late......he can help in case of injury or simply general depth

It's beyond being huge. They need him to contribute or they wont do a damn thing this year. I see one guy who is a proven pretty good pass rusher on our roster and that's TBC. Wether it's fair to expect huge things from a rookie or not isn't the point. The point is BB pretty much has sealed the deal on the OLB position this season. For this season, all his chips rely on the development of young prospects/new rookies.

We absolutely NEED cunningham to contribute, forget about it being merely a "nice addition" This isn't 2004, our defense is average, nothing great. They can use all the help they can get

***IcyPatriot*** · 07-06-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sicilian

I don't think the Burgess re-signing means they're not pleased with Cunningham's progress. I think that's more the reality of having a rookie DE to OLB conversion project. You're not going to depend on that rookie to get significant reps in their rookie season in all situations. Burgess gives them another vet option in case the kid needs a little more time to season.

I like that the kid seems to have a motor though. We've been lacking energy from the outside in recent years. If he can find a niche on 3rd downs, it would be more than enough for me to be happy this season.

What my paisan said ...................

**Ian** · 07-06-2010, 08:35 PM

I'm waiting for Kontradiction to weigh in - he watched him at Florida and am guessing he can provide some more insight

5 Rings for Brady!! · 07-07-2010, 06:50 AM

I think Cunningham has every chance in the world to exceed expectations because almost universally this pick has been panned to some degree. The expectation currently is that he won't help the team for 2 years...

The guy is a beast. He is like a 15 lb. bigger version of Roosevelt Colvin (pre-injury), with the ability to continue to gain weight if needed.

Synovia · 07-07-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

There have been many college DE/pro 34 OLBs who have contributed a lot as rookies.
Its not like he will need to learn an entirely new skillset.
His job, or the job of whoever is the primary OLB is to play the run and rush the passer, about an equal amount of times.
The pass rush skills are not different than what he has done his entire football life, however, he will now be facing tougher competition. Many rookies adapt to that, many dont.
As far as run defense there certainly is change from what he is used to in college, but it isn't rocket science.
I know that the common reposnse will be that he has never covered. OK All of our OLBs COMBINED last season were in coverage 343 times. That amount to about 10 times a game a full time OLB. I don't suppose that a rookie DE-OLB comversion will be as comfortable as a vet, but we are talking about 10 plays a game of covering the flat.
I know it is widely believed that BBs system is so complex that rookies can't be expected to play in it. Here we have abandoned year 2 as well.
I think that most of the reason for this is because BB has done a good job over the years acquiring veterans and keeping them around, especially at the LB position. So there are few early round picks at LB over the BB years, and the ones that were picked were behind great players.

Are you making the assumption that NE, Dallas, SD, etc play the same defense? Because they don't. They ask completely different things out of their linebackers. SD's OLBs almost never drop into coverage. New England's do quite a bit.

***AndyJohnson*** · 07-07-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synovia

Are you making the assumption that NE, Dallas, SD, etc play the same defense? Because they don't. They ask completely different things out of their linebackers. SD's OLBs almost never drop into coverage. New England's do quite a bit.

Where did I say they have to play exactly the same defense?
And according to profootballfocus participation stats, the Chargers OLBs dropped into coverage 314 times vs 343 for the Pats, so with 2 OLBs and a 16 game season you are talking about less than 1 more time a game that an OLB drops into coverage in the Pat system than the Charger system.

stinkypete · 07-07-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJohnson

There have been many college DE/pro 34 OLBs who have contributed a lot as rookies.
Its not like he will need to learn an entirely new skillset.
His job, or the job of whoever is the primary OLB is to play the run and rush the passer, about an equal amount of times.
The pass rush skills are not different than what he has done his entire football life, however, he will now be facing tougher competition. Many rookies adapt to that, many dont.
As far as run defense there certainly is change from what he is used to in college, but it isn't rocket science.
I know that the common reposnse will be that he has never covered. OK All of our OLBs COMBINED last season were in coverage 343 times. That amount to about 10 times a game a full time OLB. I don't suppose that a rookie DE-OLB comversion will be as comfortable as a vet, but we are talking about 10 plays a game of covering the flat.
I know it is widely believed that BBs system is so complex that rookies can't be expected to play in it. Here we have abandoned year 2 as well.
I think that most of the reason for this is because BB has done a good job over the years acquiring veterans and keeping them around, especially at the LB position. So there are few early round picks at LB over the BB years, and the ones that were picked were behind great players.

I could be wrong but who are the examples of the guys who sat for 1-2 years playing sts then figured out the system? To me it seems if you are good (Mayo for ex) you get on the field. If you get an opportunity due to lack of players at the position you get on the field (Guyton) if you can't really play (Woods, Alexander) you sit, not because you need years to learn.

TBC is the only one I can think of. IIRC, he didn't see a defensive snap until week 17 of his rookie year and wasn't a really defensive regular until his 4th year.

TBC was also a 7th round pick and playing behind a rotation of Vrabel, Willie and Colvin. Cunningham comes in with much greater expectations and much less talent ahead of him.

I see no reason why he can't contribute as a rookie. I think the perception that OLB's struggle to find the Patriots system is more a result of the immense talent that the team has had at the position.

reamer · 07-07-2010, 10:03 AM

If anyone wants to better acquaint themselves with Cunningham, then do yourself a favor and check this out: Video Player The SEC Digital Network is the SEC's official online resource for news and full games, so it's totally legal and legitimate. Every single Florida game from last year is available in its entirety if you scroll down the list. You can watch all three of the Gators we drafted. Also, if you click on any of the other team's video channels, you can watch their entire games as well. Very handy tool.

So far, I've rewatched a handful of games, focusing exclusively on Cunningham, and I'm getting more and more excited about his potential in our system. I really believe he gets significant playing time this year, and will most likely start by the end of the season. By year's end, the youth movement will be in full effect.

scott99 · 07-07-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patfanken

The only way I can see Cunningham making an immediate impact THIS year is on STs, and as a situational pass rusher. The DE to OLB conversion is NOT a one or even two year process. We won't see the true value of Cunningham until well into his 3rd year. It is what it is. The best we can hope for THIS season is to see the "flashes".

I think this is 99.99% correct. The other .01% is if he just "get's it", blows people away at camp, and just proves to be a stud like Mayo. Ya never know.