Panthers may not tag Peppers (merged) - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

***Rob0729*** · 01-31-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonPatriot

I agree with you. Sign Wilfork and get pass rushers through the draft. The last thing we need is another high priced free agent with a questionable work ethic.

Although I am not neccessarily advocating getting Peppers unless the market is really down on him (and the market and not Peppers will determine his contract), getting a free agent pass rusher to contribute immediately is very risky. Few do.

BTW, watching Peppers take on Bryant McKinnie this year, he is worth looking at. When Peppers is on he is a beast. Also, his lack of work ethic is a little overstated. He started slow this year, but he was great the second half of the season this year.

If Peppers can get close to what he will probably ask for, I don't know if it worth going after him. If the market is less than hot for him (there should be interest, but maybe not as much as we expect), it will be worth looking at him.

***Rob0729*** · 01-31-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

We could probably sign Wilfork and Dansby for what it would cost to sign Peppers. And I personally think that Dansby would help our defense more than Peppers. No matter how good our edge rushers are, they won't be terribly effective unless we seal the middle better and stop the QB from stepping up into the pocket. Signing Wilfork and Dansby would make us rock solid up the middle. Add a couple of pass rushers in the draft to add to our veterans and we would be a much, much better defense.

I like the idea of Dansby myself. I still think the Pats need to get an outside rusher, but there are a few out there who might be decent enough without breaking the bank.

***HarkDawg*** · 01-31-2010, 08:46 PM

we need an animal on defense. He would be it

.

Big, strong, 3-4/4-3 versatile.

we need a legit pass threat on D....

get him!

The Dynasty · 01-31-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolinatony

Do you think that's enought for Vince or is he looking for more?
We do need playmakers and this team looked soft last year on both lines.
They seemed to get pushed off the LOS more than the opposite.

I think that Vince is looking for more, but if he truly wants to stay with the Patriots then this is a fair deal. It was based off of Kris Jenkins deal last season with the Jets, this deal would be giving him 2 million more a year. It is going to take some budging from both sides for a deal to get done and both sides want a deal to get done it is just how far does each side want to give.

You're exactly right we need play makers on defense, preferably guys that can rush the passer. I didnt think our line play was that bad this season, we had a lot of injuries on both sides of the ball. For the most part the OL played well and gave Brady the time he needed to find WR's, the problem was he didnt have anyone to throw to besides Moss and Welker. The DL did a decent job, its strength was stopping the run but still lacked the pressure on the QB. The addition of an OLB could help that out as well.

***mayoclinic*** · 01-31-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dynasty

I think that Vince is looking for more, but if he truly wants to stay with the Patriots then this is a fair deal. It was based off of Kris Jenkins deal last season with the Jets, this deal would be giving him 2 million more a year. It is going to take some budging from both sides for a deal to get done and both sides want a deal to get done it is just how far does each side want to give.

I would be pleasantly shocked if that kind of deal gets it done. Far fewer teams were in the market for 3-4 NTs when the Jets signed Jenkins, Jenkins was coming off injury and was older than Wilfork. Carolina traded Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th, about what we paid Oakland for Derrick Burgess. Would anyone trade Wilfork for that kind of return?

I'd guess $8M/year average would be fair, probably 5 years @ $40M.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dynasty

You're exactly right we need play makers on defense, preferably guys that can rush the passer. I didnt think our line play was that bad this season, we had a lot of injuries on both sides of the ball. For the most part the OL played well and gave Brady the time he needed to find WR's, the problem was he didnt have anyone to throw to besides Moss and Welker. The DL did a decent job, its strength was stopping the run but still lacked the pressure on the QB. The addition of an OLB could help that out as well.

I personally feel that our outside pass rush won't dramatically improve until we address our interior defense. Better outside pass rushers will only help so much until we are able to seal the interior and stop the QB from stepping up in the pocket.

***Rob0729*** · 01-31-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dynasty

I think that Vince is looking for more, but if he truly wants to stay with the Patriots then this is a fair deal. It was based off of Kris Jenkins deal last season with the Jets, this deal would be giving him 2 million more a year. It is going to take some budging from both sides for a deal to get done and both sides want a deal to get done it is just how far does each side want to give.

You're exactly right we need play makers on defense, preferably guys that can rush the passer. I didnt think our line play was that bad this season, we had a lot of injuries on both sides of the ball. For the most part the OL played well and gave Brady the time he needed to find WR's, the problem was he didnt have anyone to throw to besides Moss and Welker. The DL did a decent job, its strength was stopping the run but still lacked the pressure on the QB. The addition of an OLB could help that out as well.

Jenkins didn't get a new deal when he was traded to the Jets. I am guessing that Vince will want something close to what Albert Haynesworth got. The Redskins made him a ridiculously stupid deal, but rarely do players look at ridiculously stupid deals in the players favor and say that they understand it was ridiculously stupid and are willing to take a lot less. He may be willing to settle for less than Haynesworth, but it probably won't be significantly less.

The Dynasty · 01-31-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob0729

Jenkins didn't get a new deal when he was traded to the Jets. I am guessing that Vince will want something close to what Albert Haynesworth got. The Redskins made him a ridiculously stupid deal, but rarely do players look at ridiculously stupid deals in the players favor and say that they understand it was ridiculously stupid and are willing to take a lot less. He may be willing to settle for less than Haynesworth, but it probably won't be significantly less.

My mistake, it was based off of the contract he signed in Feb of 2008.

Kris Jenkins

Vince is looking for something that Haynesworth got, but I cannot see the Patriots giving him that money. If this deal is to get done both sides are going to have to give in a little. Its hard to say what exactly the fairest deal is for both sides, but if Vince really wants to remain a Patriot he will do what it takes for the deal to get done.

furley · 01-31-2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dynasty

A lot of people are saying the Pats should pick one or the other with Wilfork or Peppers. The fact of the matter is that we need both. Not necasarily Peppers, but we need a guy that can make an immediate impact as a pass rusher. If we lose Wilfork then that creates an immediate need on the DL. Getting a proven pass rusher, but losing our best DL and probably best player on defense isnt helping the team, same with keeping our best DL but then not addressing the pass rush.

Personally I would sign Wilfork to a multi year deal around what Mike Reiss proposed yesterday, 4 years 27 million. Then I would go hard after Peppers, he fits our system perfectly and sometimes you have to spend money to better your team.

The reason why I feel that signing them both isn't an option is due to the fact that 1) Peppers' price tag will be high and 2) the Patriots have other key players to think about whether or not to resign besides Wilfork. There's Gostkowski, Mankins, Watson, Bodden and Faulk.

The Dynasty · 01-31-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

I would be pleasantly shocked if that kind of deal gets it done. Far fewer teams were in the market for 3-4 NTs when the Jets signed Jenkins, Jenkins was coming off injury and was older than Wilfork. Carolina traded Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th, about what we paid Oakland for Derrick Burgess. Would anyone trade Wilfork for that kind of return?

I'd guess $8M/year average would be fair, probably 5 years @ $40M.

It's that 5th year that I think the Patriots would be a little concerned with. That would take Vince to being 33 years old. I dont have a problem with it at all, but I think the Pats would be a little concerned with it. I dont know what exactly the fairest deal is for both sides, but you have to think if Vince really wanted to stay a Patriot he would do what it takes to make that happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayoclinic

I personally feel that our outside pass rush won't dramatically improve until we address our interior defense. Better outside pass rushers will only help so much until we are able to seal the interior and stop the QB from stepping up in the pocket.

I see what you are saying with needing help on the inside as well. Improving the pass rush wont happen in one off season I believe. I think it will take two off seasons to get it back to a great pass rush. The first step and most important step is getting a pass rush from the outside. Then once we establish we can do that, then we can worry about adding a player to help on the interior.

Two wildcards on our roster are Crable and McKenzie if these two guys can step in and make an impact this year then that will greatly improve our pass rush and our defense as a whole and wont make us have to go out and get another impact LB. For the off season we cannot count on those 2 being able to make an immediate impact, we need to go out and get a proven pass rusher than can make an impact right away.

The Dynasty · 01-31-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furley

The reason why I feel that signing them both isn't an option is due to the fact that 1) Peppers' price tag will be high and 2) the Patriots have other key players to think about whether or not to resign besides Wilfork. There's Gostkowski, Mankins, Watson, Bodden and Faulk.

I agree that Peppers' price tag may be too high and therefore not worth going after. If it is in reason I am all for it. What I am saying is if we let Wilfork walk so we have the money to sign Peppers that leaves a huge void on the DL, that we would also need to address right away.

Out of the players you named Wilfork is by far the most valuable player. He is the most valuable player on the Patriot defense. Getting him back on the team next season is the first priority in the off season. After that then you can start worrying about the second tier players like Ghost, Mankins, Watson, Bodden and Faulk. Out of those guys I think Faulk is a sure thing coming back. Bodden and Mankins will most likely be back as well. Watson I am not so sure about. I could see him wanting to play somewhere where he would be catching more passes instead of blocking