NJPatsfan26

Well having tubby wrecks in there, it makes it all more enjoyable when they loose, and is profitable for the majority of the restaurants in the NY area....

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RayClay

I hate the rat more than anything, but I also watched the 2005 season. We must have lost 10-12 DBs through injury, or failed acquisitions (I may be exaggerating, maybe not though). We also lost all our running backs and finished with Corey Dillon running sideways on one leg.

Not a season a young DC would be judged on. BB had to improvise where he could, I mean Artrell Hawkins saved the season, who would have guessed?

Hiring Mangini after his Jets stint? Yeah, that was stupid.

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MoLewisrocks

Aside from the OP who sounds like a relative, even Bill's fans don't want him.

letekro

I know Mangini is despised 'round these parts, but Lombardi seems to enjoy kicking people when they're down and acting like he himself is equal parts Bill Parcells, Ozzie Newsome, and Scott Pioli. He is the type of commentator that would've ripped Belichick during his Cleveland struggles as well.

MoLewisrocks

Actually not likely as he was there with BB and Pioli and the ball boy...as the player personnel guy. He's actually a huge BB supporter and admirer.

letekro

I mean, assuming there was no personal relationship...my point is that he is quick to deride others when his own record is nothing to be particularly proud of.

MoLewisrocks

He's now being paid to be an analyst. And as for his own record, if you're talking about Oakland I doubt there is anyone who has been involved with that organization in the last decade comfortable pointing to anything that transpired there except perhaps Chucky. And once he got established he got the hell out of Oaktown for a reason (much like BB with the JETS ownership situation).

I think Lombardi got a bad rap because Raider fans were in denial about the root problem there for so long, and some still are. Art Schell didn't like Mike, either...nor did Lane Kiffen...LOL Neither of whom was his choice, either.

IcyPatriot

I'm seriously hoping those fans succeed in the boycott of the beginning of the game.

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PatsWickedPissah

Were they to do so, I'd wager that the NFL broadcast would barely if at all refer to it. Like with news, certain events may happen but if it doesn't fit the narritive, it won't be covered.

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lamafist

I think it's as safe a bet as any that Mangini, under any circumstances, would be a worse coach than BB. I mean, I'm hardly impartial on this issue, but I think BB is one of the all time best coaches in NFL history, so I never really entertained the notion that any of his proteges would end up surpassing him.

No, the "central thesis" of my posts was that the conventional wisdom that Mangini has shown himself to be a lousy coach is based on specious reasoning, a lot of which could have been used to likewise condemn BB before the 2001 season.

In short:

a) There were a number of obvious factors regarding the actual players on the field that almost certainly had more to do with the defensive turnaround than Belichick taking over the signal calling.
b) The fact that BB wanted to keep Mangini at DC, to the point of trying to talk him out of the Jets HC job, in my mind mitigates any speculation about Mangini's abilities based on 2005.
c) The Jets' making the playoffs in Mangini's first season was actually really bad for him. Starting in his 2nd year, he and Tennenbaum had no choice but to make personnel moves with a "win now" mentality, rather than accept a potential fall-off while trying to slowly build a solid team for the long haul.
d) After this led to failure, as it usually does, Mangini seems determined to not make the same mistakes in Cleveland, and seems almost Belichickian in his willingness to piss off fans who want to see their team win a few games this season by trading away anybody not part of his long-term plan whom he can get any value for.

My conclusion from this is that I do not believe has demonstrated himself to be a bad coach yet. He hasn't demonstrated himself to be a good coach yet either, but it would be a mistake to overreact to the angry fans and not let him continue the rebuilding plan that he seems to be basing on Belichicks' first years in NE.