Breaking down run game short comings/it's not "his" fault - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

***Deus Irae*** · 10-28-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jays52

And, to be fair, I probably didn't put in the same level of due dilligence with the DVR like I should have on this one. Ah well, that's what tomorrow during dinner time is for I guess.

Please don't take my earlier post as anything but a general idea. It was not aimed at you in any negative way. It was just posted for anyone who might have an interest in doing such a thing. My point was simply that it's possible for a poster with the right equipment to go back through all the games and pull out the gifs of every individual play and post them, if they so chose.

jays52 · 10-28-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Irae

Please don't take my earlier post as anything but a general idea. It was not aimed at you in any negative way. It was just posted for anyone who might have an interest in doing such a thing. My point was simply that it's possible for a poster with the right equipment to go back through all the games and pull out the gifs of every individual play and post them, if they so chose.

Totally, not taken in a negative manner in the least. Just kinda motivated me, that's all.

unoriginal · 10-28-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jays52

Towards the rub on the 1 tech, you are 100% correct, and thanks for mentioning that. Looking at it now after realizing that makes the reach block seem impossible without a little help. Problem is, what happens if there's the playside stunt? Any way you slice it the play would be blown up and the PG wouldn't have enough time to square to the DE if he chipped the 1-tech. Does that sound right?

That sounds right. A good zone blocking line will be able to nullify that stunt by the tackle getting a good punch on him and the guard coming off the nose quick and lateral — that happens if they are skilled and have experience picking that thing up (and are lucky and it doesn't catch them by surprise).

But what you'd expect to happen scheme-wise is that the play would probably get blown up if the stunt doesn't get turned so far inside the Mike is left in a 4 yard hole. Good call by the defense, move on.

Of course, if the defense calls that stunt on an outside zone, good bye.

rhodeisland · 10-29-2009, 02:19 AM

Usually a lurker on many pats boards, but I love talking the actual strategy of the game. Wanted to post this link, which gives a fairly good breakdown of the basics of zone blocking:

Zone Blocking Manual BASH

From my eyes, Maroney is utilized incorrectly and should really get more opportunities to get around the tackles. He just can't hit the hole with any kind of authority. If it's because we don't have a fullback that this blocking scheme isn't fully effective, we need to adjust. How about running LOMO on draw plays which only seem to go to Kevin Faulk? Why not more counters?

In the Tennessee game, the line was getting a huge push and it seemed to fit LM's style. When he gets positive yards, he turns those yards into big gains. When he can't get out of the backfield, the results are obvious. Do we need to muscle up and attempt to get that push more often, rather than make our blocking schemes so exotic?

PatsFanSince74 · 10-29-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jays52

Let's look at what is going on here. Without the fullback taking backside contain, and the team's tendency to run this play at the TE, the defense is free to scrape down the line immediately. The key to this defense is the crashing tackle getting in front of the face of the backside guard. The guard is assigned to pickup the will under normal zone, but he will pick up the crashing tackle as he moves across his face. The backside tackle is too slow to reach the will, and he becomes a free runner. Further, the end will already be in the backfield and coming hard towards the runner. Should the backside guard not seal the tackle, the tackle as well becomes disruptive. The nose will crash upfield, taking both the center and the playside a gap. The playside should be blocked normally, but instead of the mike and flowing will being blocked, only the mike is blocked. The flowing will should be already sealing the hole by the time the back reads the shoulder of the guard. At this point, the backside flow should be arriving in bad temper to finish the play. Any back who reads this playside block should see the two hole being the primary cut. With this two hole suddenly sealed by the flowing will, the back won't have anywhere to go. Should he try the bounce out, the SS should be sitting in the area off of the TE. Should he try to cut against the grain, the crashing end and possibly tackle will be there to finish him off. Hence, happy feet.

What say ye?

First of all, I say thanks.

I've "Quoted" above the diagram and comment that I found most helpful. What you're saying, in layman's terms, is that by the time (measured in maybe all of two seconds) the RB gets to what is supposed to be an open two hole, he's got potentially three different guys to worry about from three different directions and has another nanosecond to make the most of a bad situation.

eagle eye · 10-29-2009, 08:03 AM

Excellent op.

I too like Deus would love to have those pics of games. Just listening to Belichick the other day and what he had to say regarding the difference in what Maroney sees to what Faulk sees when he is in the game was very interesting.

I think that a bit more use of Maroney in the passing game out of the backfield is the answer without bringing in a lead blocker. As BB said, when Maroney is on the field the opposition are more likely to bring an extra man onto the line, whereas with Faulk they go safe as he is a threat in passing game.

cavtroop · 10-29-2009, 08:17 AM

Not having ever played a down of organized football, I have nothing of note to contribute to this thread. I do want to say that these are exactly the types of threads that I love, and come here for, so please keep it up.

Patspsycho · 10-29-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanSince74

First of all, I say thanks.

I've "Quoted" above the diagram and comment that I found most helpful. What you're saying, in layman's terms, is that by the time (measured in maybe all of two seconds) the RB gets to what is supposed to be an open two hole, he's got potentially three different guys to worry about from three different directions and has another nanosecond to make the most of a bad situation.

Yes.

The Will, DE, and SS.

The zone blocking in this particular scheme creates the two hole, but without the Fullback, we have no backside (as opposed to playside) protection. So, on the D, whoever can get around the edge, pretty much has a free path to pursue, because there is no FB to block him.

So in this scenario, LoMo just has no time to react, and pretty much does not have the luxury of having another option, because the Will is unchecked and has a free path to sealing the two hole, and should he fail, the SS is sitting in basically 9 tech (outside shade of TE).

In the Bucs game, we saw this because they overpursued in the run plays (what we are talking about above). You saw them stack the box more often than not with the SS.

Again I do not have DVR so I will defer to anyone who does, and saw otherwise.

***ALP*** · 10-29-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanSince74

First of all, I say thanks.

I've "Quoted" above the diagram and comment that I found most helpful. What you're saying, in layman's terms, is that by the time (measured in maybe all of two seconds) the RB gets to what is supposed to be an open two hole, he's got potentially three different guys to worry about from three different directions and has another nanosecond to make the most of a bad situation.

in that diagram....if the TE blocked the SS very nicely, and saw the will coming freely, he could close the SS to the INSIDE, and LoMo would be able to run off taclke, and outside of the TE no? and then hope that the wr had a semi decent block ont eh cb....(it would also give the will more distace to cover and through more traffic)

unoriginal · 10-29-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALP

in that diagram....if the TE blocked the SS very nicely, and saw the will coming freely, he could close the SS to the INSIDE, and LoMo would be able to run off taclke, and outside of the TE no? and then hope that the wr had a semi decent block ont eh cb....(it would also give the will more distace to cover and through more traffic)

He would do that on outside zone, where the running back is aiming for a spot just outside of the tight end.