Why are the owners threatening a lockout?? - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

Pats726 · 04-05-2009, 08:33 PM

Joe6pk----It is obvious that they will try to use the hammer to not give up concessions to the players...welcome the lock out..and it MAY have different owners wanting it for different reasons..but bottom line..as they MAY look at it in the long run..they have a BIG PR problem with the public. They can look at all calclations and such..but selling the public on it is a big difference. they may not wish to lose out on a weak CBA..and they should not..but on the other hand, talking about a lock out will not, I believe, sit well with the public. How will they explain bargaining in faith when they are quietly planning a lockout way in advance? They risk REALLy poor publicity and will have to sell it to the public. SO it does matter what the owners do. Both sides may feel strongly..but getting to an agreement MAY be more important than a work stoppage/lock out..There's TONS of money...bet on football and fantasy footnall and the like..I do not think it would be at all popular to pull the plug on a season. Killing the golden goose is something neither side wishes for.
CMassPF---I think while raw bumbers are certainly higher now..I mean with expansion and TV those should be higher, but many years ago baseball was in America's soul it was America's past time..It is NOT that now at all. Football rules...THAT is the way it has become. It's not just what happened with labor in baseball but how the league is run and that has put baseball on a downside. Stats do not tell the whole story. There is a whole generation or two that has a LOT less interest in the game than a LONG time ago. THAT long agao..I could not see baseball in decline as it has been. Ask this question to any of the older people in the sports media and they say how it has declined..a smaller piece of the overall pie of sports.
Also owners may KNOW...but there is a large untangible in a lockout..all calculations could be skewed and unknowns may change those figures.
DBrz---Yes,,they gave up a bit too much..but other things in the CBA might not have worked out well for them..I think they were wise in doing what they did..as THAt extension was done rushed and under the gun.
It's funny that this has not been mentioned...losing a franchise or two or three. Instead, Goodell is wanting to more or less expand in time. I agree that a new CBA has to reflect the whole economy and the players know that as well. But they also need to get started on this early to prevent bad things in thefuture. Owners who are counting on a lockout as helping thesport may be out of luck. Things are golden in the FL...thinking they will always be like that is folly. A blind spot could easily make the league stumble. I do agree that there will be a big fight again betwen the larger prosperous markets and the smaller ones.
PF74---Nothing magical, but I do not think any of thepro leagues wish to shrink at all. There may not be anything magical about 32..it does work out freat in many ways..but I do not see any league wishing to contract..Yes it was Kones..Kraft who did give in a bit against the maller owners..and they may NOT do that this time.I really think that that also was another reason why they got out of the CBA...not sure they will concede again..in that way.
fnc---I Agreed Bird, Johnson and Jordan are all gone..and that has a lot to do with it..not the same game though...it is still quite popular but down some from its peak.
Baseball is better now..steroids REALLY saved baseball..without the Sammy and Mark homer derby and Bonds..would baseball have made the comeback? But teh one thing about all of this..looking back at labor problems in sports..all of those times took place in more economic good times..having labor issues with bad economics might be a LOT different. I am sure the hard core fans would be back...but would all the fans of the sport?? I was at one time a die hard sports fan..baseball and basketball as much as football. Both those sports to me have changed..and to me lessened...much more the occasional fan if at all.
A bad CBA could hurt the owners of course..but planning for that so far in advance is hardly bargaining in good faith. Planning that it will not be negotiated is hardly one of strength..and it will not be popular. Both players and owners have a lot to gain by getting a new CBA done..I really think BOTH have a lot to lose if there is either a lock out or other labor trouble.

upstater1 · 04-05-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

Baseball may be increasing revenue...but it's far less popular now than it was 40...50 yars ago when it was REALLY America''s past time. It's changed...and not for the better.
Do you think the owners really wish for a CBA and the players do not? If the owners do want a CBA..then why would they be getting ready for a lock out?
I undesrtand that owners have different reasons for wishing to change parts of the CBA..that has been thatw ay for awhile..but why the lockout?? Why basically shut down teh league? How does that make sense? Is that not a large gamble to have a lockout in this economy? What is odd is that few of the fans of todat remember the labor trouble in the 80s..which did not help it's growth at that time. Maybe the owners are looking at it long term, but shutting the league down is more like cutting one's nose to spite their face. Many may look at it as millionaire players battling billionaires who own teams..and will not care at all. I just think theres a large down side that is being overlooked.

It's just like any job. You can still work without a CBA. Most employers prefer it that way. Usually workers go on strike when they don't have a contract for a long while. In football though, players might prefer playing without a contract.

Pats726 · 04-05-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1

It's just like any job. You can still work without a CBA. Most employers prefer it that way. Usually workers go on strike when they don't have a contract for a long while. In football though, players might prefer playing without a contract.

Oh...I agree..as others have pointed out..it is the OWNERS that may want a CBA to be in place...and that may be their excuse for a lockout. It will show though a LOT about SMith and Goodell whether this gets done or not..time for both to step up to the plate!! Hopefully they will not whiff.

fnordcircle · 04-06-2009, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pats726

Baseball may be increasing revenue...but it's far less popular now than it was 40...50 yars ago

If you are gauging popularity in percentages you are right, if you are gauging popularity in sheer numbers, you are wrong.

Baseball is bigger now numbers-wise than it ever has been. Sad to say it, but the strike did not hurt the sport.

***mgteich*** · 04-06-2009, 10:03 AM

There really are only two tactics for each side. The parties can either negotiate or withhold their side of the contractual relationship. The players can threaten not to play. The owner can threaten not to allow them to pay. It really is that simple.

OWNERS
negotiation
lockout

PLAYERS
negotiation
strike

***Frezo*** · 04-06-2009, 10:32 AM

I'm more worried Attorney Smith arguing with Attorney Goodell and the whole thing dragging on in typical lawyer fashion.

***mgteich*** · 04-06-2009, 10:58 AM

Contracts as important as this SHOULD drag out in typical lawyer fashion. They have almost a year to work on a new agreement. They need to have a new agreement before franchisees are designated in February 2010.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frezo

I'm more worried Attorney Smith arguing with Attorney Goodell and the whole thing dragging on in typical lawyer fashion.

***Rob0729*** · 04-06-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroney TD

Baseball has actually be increasing revenue for years although this year it might soften a bit. Last year for baseball was their best year ever so I don't agree that it's been in decline. There is no doubt that the NFL is #1 though which is why I think it would be foolish for the owners to cause any missed games. It would still be #1 upon it's return but there will certainly be some fans that are lost in the process.

That's misleading. Baseball in baseball towns like Boston, NY, Chicago, etc. are making big revenues. But baseball is increasingly becoming a regional sport. There are teams in certain parts of the country that can't give away tickets. Even the Tampa Rays had trouble selling tickets when they were leading the American League East for most of the season.

The problem with MLB is that many teams know they are eliminated from playoff contention before the first pitch of the season. Teams like the Pirates have absolutely no chance of competiting for the playoffs barring some fluke. Even when a team with not a big fan base and revenues like the Rays hit it big, typically it is only a short term thing since they will get picked apart when their best players hit free agency. This is what the NFL wants to avoid.

E Belichick Unum · 04-06-2009, 11:36 AM

If you want to know why the owners feel the need to reopen the CBA, below is valid reason. If they are going to pay millions to players they should be able to recoup lost salary in the case of player misconduct/stupidity.

FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Source: Plax wins battle vs. Giants over bonus $$

Quote:

The Giants suspended Burress, who also was fined and finished the season on the team's non-football injury list. The union filed a separate grievance over what it termed excessive punishment by the Giants. His suspension cost him more than $800,000 in salary. The team also fined him more than $200,000, his single-game salary.

It's a potentially precedent-setting decision that could determine whether NFL teams can override guarantees negotiated into contracts should a player violate team or league rules. Unlike North America's three other major professional sports leagues, NFL contracts are not guaranteed if a player is released unless those terms were negotiated into the deal.

It's also a decision that might affect how the Cleveland Browns handle their contract with receiver Donte Stallworth, who faces charges that he was driving drunk when he killed a pedestrian last month in Miami.

Pats726 · 04-06-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frezo

I'm more worried Attorney Smith arguing with Attorney odell and the whole thing dragging on in typical lawyer fashion.

As was pointed out before..RG is not at attorney..he has helped before with the CBA negotiations..but it was Tags who really moved it along and got it done. They have a lot of rime..but they have larger issues than before...and these are rookies.. I don't care how much Goodell did in the past..as now he is grand poohba, he has shown poor leadership.