Would you trade Samuel for...

[Digger44]

im sorry, i said that wrong. he can be SIGNED by another team still if hes franchised but they would have to compensate 2 first round draft picks. (the high tender).

No that is totally incorrect. It is the same thing you said the first time. It is completely dead wrong.

 

[BelichickFan]

2 number 1's in 2008 would be smarter...b/c you never know who will boom out onto the national scene next year

Even though it's supposedly lower value I'd take the Saints #1 in 2008 than in 2007. Sure you wait a year but you never know what might happen. If we'd have traded Branch to Pittsburgh or Denver we'd have been thinking it was a low #1 but they're picking 15th and 21st. Lots of preseason playoff teams didn't make the playoffs. Take a #1 next year, spread four #1s over two years and hope that you get lucky with the team you get the pick from.

 

[koolaid23]

digger do me a favor. look it up. ill accept your apology later...

 

[Digger44]

digger do me a favor. look it up. ill accept your apology later...

koolaid, do me a favor and get an education. I think it is pretty funny that you are about to made into a total arse. So please, sit back, relax, and get educated then you may apologize for being an arse that has no idea what you are talking about.

There are two types of franchise tag designations: the exclusive rights franchise tag, and non-exclusive rights franchise tag:

An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount equal to or greater than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the "current" year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams, however the team may negotiate with another team of its desire for any compensation it agrees to.

A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount equal to or greater than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.

The "non-exclusive" tag is not used as often as the "exclusive" tag. You sir are an arse. The whole thread is based upon Asante being franchised with the "exclusive tag" that is open to the teams discretion upon compensation.

If you had any NFL knowledge whatsoever you would not be blowing smoke out of your bum about something you are ignorant on.

I am waiting for my apology. Go look up what I just posted ans see your ignorance.

 

[DaBruinz]

its not possible. samuel is an unrestricted free agent. we would have to franchise him before we could trade him. compensation for a franchised player is 2 1st round draft picks. if we resign him, then we can trade him. but its not gonna be cheap. someone else will overpay...(jets, buffalo, saints) but if we resign him then why trade him?

Compensation does NOT have to be 2 1st round picks. That is the compensation IF the teams can't work out compensation after a franchise player has been signed.

The fact of the matter is that Tebucky Jones was franchised by the Pats and the Saints signed him to a contract. The Saints and Pats agreed that fair compensation would be a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round pick. I believe the Pats got a 3rd and 5th in 2003 and the 2nd in 2004. The 2nd they traded for Dillon.

 

[Digger44]

Compensation does NOT have to be 2 1st round picks. That is the compensation IF the teams can't work out compensation after a franchise player has been signed.

The fact of the matter is that Tebucky Jones was franchised by the Pats and the Saints signed him to a contract. The Saints and Pats agreed that fair compensation would be a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th round pick. I believe the Pats got a 3rd and 5th in 2003 and the 2nd in 2004. The 2nd they traded for Dillon.

It's not worth it, he drank too much koolaid. I just wish he would educate himself before he tries to pull the trigger.

 

[DaBruinz]

koolaid, do me a favor and get an education. I think it is pretty funny that you are about to made into a total arse. So please, sit back, relax, and get educated then you may apologize for being an arse that has no idea what you are talking about.

There are two types of franchise tag designations: the exclusive rights franchise tag, and non-exclusive rights franchise tag:

An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount equal to or greater than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the "current" year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams, however the team may negotiate with another team of its desire for any compensation it agrees to.

A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount equal to or greater than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.

The "non-exclusive" tag is not used as often as the "exclusive" tag. You sir are an arse. The whole thread is based upon Asante being franchised with the "exclusive tag" that is open to the teams discretion upon compensation.

If you had any NFL knowledge whatsoever you would not be blowing smoke out of your bum about something you are ignorant on.

I am waiting for my apology. Go look up what I just posted ans see your ignorance.

Digger, before claiming someone else's ignorance, make sure you aren't making any mistakes yourself.

1) A player who signs their franchise tag offer can not be traded.
2) The Non-exclusive tag is actually used more than the exclusive tag. Case in point, Tebucky Jones. Tebucky was the one who talked with the Saints and signed their offer sheet.
3) Compensation for the franchise signing is only 2 1st round picks if they can not come to an agreement. That is why most teams come to an agreement before actually signing a player. Its how the Pats got a 2nd, 3rd and 5th from the Saints for Tebucky.

 

[Seymour93]

Even though it's supposedly lower value I'd take the Saints #1 in 2008 than in 2007. Sure you wait a year but you never know what might happen. If we'd have traded Branch to Pittsburgh or Denver we'd have been thinking it was a low #1 but they're picking 15th and 21st. Lots of preseason playoff teams didn't make the playoffs. Take a #1 next year, spread four #1s over two years and hope that you get lucky with the team you get the pick from.

That's what I was going to post. Everlong is talking about trading for this year's pick, but you nailed it. Be patient. The Saints are a cursed franchise. When was the last time they went to the playoffs two seasons in a row? The way Reggie Bush plays makes him an injury-prone player. McCallister is already injury prone. Colston's first year was cut short so that's a bad sign. Brees has had his injuries in years past. Their O-line is still suspect (Jeff Faine anyone?). D-linemen Charles Grant and Hollis Thomas are FA's. Fred Thomas and the defensive backfield are one of the worst secondaries in the league. I see nowhere but down for the Saints.

Also, the consensus is that this 2007 draft is quite weak at the top. Why have three picks in a subpar draft? Just think about it. The Saints return to normal service next season and no doubt it's possible due to the reasons above plus a division champion's schedule and we go into the 2008 draft with a top 15 pick and pick #32. That would be great.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Non-Exclusive tag is the top 5 contracts from the previous year or 120% of the player's previous salary cap figure, whichever is greater.
The Exclusive tag is the top 5 contracts as of April 14th of THIS year or 120% of the player's previous salary cap figure, whichever is greater.

The Tag formula's changed slightly for this year.

 

[everlong]

That's what I was going to post. Everlong is talking about trading for this year's pick, but you nailed it. Be patient.

I thought about a 2008 first rounder as well. I just through out the 2007 pick to get the topic started. They both make sense. If you get a 2007 pick there's nothing stopping you from trading it for a second this year and a first for next year.

 

[Digger44]

Digger, before claiming someone else's ignorance, make sure you aren't making any mistakes yourself.

1) A player who signs their franchise tag offer can not be traded.
2) The Non-exclusive tag is actually used more than the exclusive tag. Case in point, Tebucky Jones. Tebucky was the one who talked with the Saints and signed their offer sheet.
3) Compensation for the franchise signing is only 2 1st round picks if they can not come to an agreement. That is why most teams come to an agreement before actually signing a player. Its how the Pats got a 2nd, 3rd and 5th from the Saints for Tebucky.

DaBruinz, before you try to point that I made a mistake, recheck your thinking because what I just posted is not mine. Do you want the links?

 

[BelichickFan]

If you get a 2007 pick there's nothing stopping you from trading it for a second this year and a first for next year.

That is a good point. Bottom line, any #1 with the money free to spend on other FA, I'm a very happy man.

 

[Bostonian1962]

How can you trade him? He's not under contract with the Patriots or anybody else. He's a free agent.

 

[everlong]

How can you trade him? He's not under contract with the Patriots or anybody else. He's a free agent.

It's 99.999999999999% certain they will franchise him and then they can trade him.

 

[maverick4]

everlong, I also think this is wise, because I don't want to throw money at a player who had one breakout year right before his payday. Guys like that fall back down to Earth. Remember Pervis Ellison or Mark Blount?

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think there's no way ANYONE here thinks that would be anything except the IDEAL situation. Trade him for a #1 pick to a team we hardly ever play, and then sign a decent+ corner to replace him? Done and done.

Yeah, I was talking to Chris Canty the other day and he was telling me that he thinks Samuel can easilly be replaced with a late 1st round pick.

 

[BelichickFan]

Yeah, I was talking to Chris Canty the other day and he was telling me that he thinks Samuel can easilly be replaced with a late 1st round pick.

Be sarcastic all you want, well picked #1s are the best value you'll even get. Two examples ? Makins and Wilfork's cap hits for 2007 are about $1.25M each.

There's risk, of course. But if you use the #1 well, you get a but time guy, cheap, for 5 years - and $5M leftover from what you'd have paid Samuel to sign others.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

This one seems so obvious to me. Franchise him and have him be our lock down corner next year.

Whatever "value" we might get, I'll take the value of having a great CB in a year where we look like a serious playoff contender. He'll play his ass off to get the big money the next year, and then we'll go our separate ways, hopefully with another championship banner.

Seems like everyone is way overthinking this. Sit the guy and talk to him like a man -- we appreciate everything you've done for us, $8 million is a lot of money, we're going to do great next year, you'll play on an enormous stage with Monday night and Sunday night games, and then we'll be one of the 30 teams seeing if we can sign you to the very excellent contract you'll deserve and we'll see how it goes then. If it doesn't work out, we'll depart as friends.

Sure he'll be pissed about the franchise tag, and probably grumble a little. BFD.

What's the problem with this? What am I missing?

 

[maverick4]

I just don't see Asante Samuel anywhere in the same league as the elite cornerbacks.

If he wants big money, trade him. I don't want any more overpaid players on the Pats.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Be sarcastic all you want, well picked #1s are the best value you'll even get. Two examples ? Makins and Wilfork's cap hits for 2007 are about $1.25M each.

There's risk, of course. But if you use the #1 well, you get a but time guy, cheap, for 5 years - and $5M leftover from what you'd have paid Samuel to sign others.

Yes - but shut down corners don't just grow on trees. In the Patriots scheme, having someone lock down one side while the safeties can help out on the other side can make a huge difference in the secondary.

The Patriots' zone is pretty good at adapting without a shutdown corner but this is one position that usually comes at a premium given the supply and demand issues.

With $30 mil in cap space I'd prefer to go into next season with as close to a sure thing as possible, rather than counting on a rookie to replace Samuel. Maybe that means renting him for a year and bringing some guys into learn the system.

Can we take a more cost-effective route and bring in a rookie in his place? Maybe, but CB is one of those skill/talent positions where I don't have a big problem making an investment.