Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

PatsWickedPissah · Jan 19, 2021

A Whah! Whah! Whah! thread.

XLIX · Jan 19, 2021

Pape said:
here's the thing... No one is trying to discredit Brady. Not one person

Bullsh*t. Saying he’s a failure if he “only” makes the NFCCG is trying to discredit him.

203Pat · Jan 19, 2021

Pape said:
no one has let BB off the hook for going 7-9... quite the opposite. to say otherwise is not being honest

I keep hearing about the cap, selling out in prior years, opt outs, Cam, but not a lot about Bill.

TheRainMaker · Jan 19, 2021

fightingirish595 said:
We didn’t have enough resources to build around him and keep him

Classic excuse for Team Bill's representatives and a bad one. They had plenty of draft capital in 2018 and 2019 to get elite talent, but Bill wasted it. Traded Cooks, then passed on WR Ridley for a T on IR for the 3rd straight year. Took a DB they did not need in the 2nd round who was traded a year later for a bag of chips.

Traded their 3rd rounder.

2019, signed a bunch of scrubs at WR and brought back a quitter in Gordon which is probably why Bill miscalculated and only drafted one WR in Harry. Took a worthless DB in the 2nd round when the secondary was the strongest unit on the team over Metcalf (arguably one of the best WR's in the league), Brown, Samuel, Hardman.

Took Damien Harris in round 3 which I think will be a good player, but didn't play with Brady.

Bill had plenty of chances in the last two years to get some elite talent, but put his resources to terrible use.

Wozzy · Jan 19, 2021

TheRainMaker said:
Classic excuse for Team Bill's representatives and a bad one. They had plenty of draft capital in 2018 and 2019 to get elite talent, but Bill wasted it. Traded Cooks, then passed on WR Ridley for a T on IR for the 3rd straight year. Took a DB they did not need in the 2nd round who was traded a year later for a bag of chips.

Traded their 3rd rounder.

2019, signed a bunch of scrubs at WR and brought back a quitter in Gordon which is probably why Bill miscalculated and only drafted one WR in Harry. Took a worthless DB in the 2nd round when the secondary was the strongest unit on the team over Metcalf (arguably one of the best WR's in the league), Brown, Samuel, Hardman.

Took Damien Harris in round 3 which I think will be a good player, but didn't play with Brady.

Bill had plenty of chances in the last two years to get some elite talent, but put his resources to terrible use.

If only Bill had your gift of hindsight. Do us all a favor, instead of waiting until years after the draft, how about you provide us your sure-fire can't miss prospects for 2021 while also highlighting the busts, also provide us a list of the rookies who will get hurt in year one... thanks, that would be very helpful.

Also a lot of those worthless WR's Bill brought back in 2018 (Gordon, Hogan) were Brady's boys, guys he wanted... oh yeah, and they won a ring that year.

And just an FYI, DK Metcalf broke his neck six months before the NFL combine, that's why we all want access to your soothsaying abilities, it would be really helpful to know he was going to stay healthy in advance.

TheRainMaker · Jan 19, 2021

Wozzy said:
If only Bill had your gift of hindsight. Do us all a favor, instead of waiting until years after the draft, how about you provide us your sure-fire can't miss prospects for 2021 while also highlighting the busts, also provide us a list of the rookies who will get hurt in year one... thanks, that would be very helpful.

Also a lot of those worthless WR's Bill brought back in 2018 (Gordon, Hogan) were Brady's boys, guys he wanted... oh yeah, and they won a ring that year. And just an FYI, DK Metcalf broke his neck six months before the NFL combine, that's why we all want access to your soothsaying abilities, it would be really helpful to know he was going to stay healthy in advance.

The most used cop out. HINDSIGHT! I agreed with the Michel pick as they needed a RB and he was arguably the top prospect at that position, but he doesn't look like he was the right pick long-term. I have no problem with that.

Ridley was the top WR prospect in 2018 who this board was screaming for. Trade Cooks but ignore the WR position?

Harry was not a better prospect than Metcalf and his broken neck, Brown or Samuel. Many, if not all, on this board were screaming Metcalf, Brown or Samuel. Harry came out of left f***ing field and has been a disaster. That was not "hindsight".

There was no need to take DB's in the 2nd round when that unit was the strongest and there was other pressing needs! Why is that so hard to understand? Any idiot could've picked up a draft magazine or went off of Kiper's/McShay's draft board and picked better than BB the last 3 years now.

Wozzy said:
Also a lot of those worthless WR's Bill brought back in 2018 (Gordon, Hogan) were Brady's boys, guys he wanted... oh yeah, and they won a ring that year.

Gordon did not win a ring with Brady in 2018. He quit on the team in 2018. Hogan left after the 2018 season. Again, I was referring to the worthless FA signings in 2019.

Pape · Jan 19, 2021

203Pat said:
I keep hearing about the cap, selling out in prior years, opt outs, Cam, but not a lot about Bill.

Im tired of the whole mess... i can't honestly believe people think they need to take sides... Coaches coach, players play... love em both ... no need to argue about it... its like pissing in the wind when you do... my two cents at any rate... eot for me

Wozzy · Jan 19, 2021

TheRainMaker said:
The most used cop out. HINDSIGHT! I agreed with the Michel pick as they needed a RB and he was arguably the top prospect at that position, but he doesn't look like he was the right pick long-term. I have no problem with that.

Ridley was the top WR prospect in 2018 who this board was screaming for. Trade Cooks but ignore the WR position?

Harry was not a better prospect than Metcalf and his broken neck, Brown or Samuel. Many, if not all, on this board were screaming Metcalf, Brown or Samuel. Harry came out of left f***ing field and has been a disaster. That was not "hindsight".

There was no need to take DB's in the 2nd round when that unit was the strongest and there was other pressing needs! Why is that so hard to understand? Any idiot could've picked up a draft magazine or went off of Kiper's/McShay's draft board and picked better than BB the last 3 years now.

Gordon did not win a ring with Brady in 2018. He quit on the team in 2018. Hogan left after the 2018 season. Again, I was referring to the worthless FA signings in 2019.

There's numerous reasons why the 2019 offense failed, Tom being injured chief among them.

You sure throw the "excuses" word around a lot. Are you afraid to share your expertise and ability to see into the future with the rest of us?

I didn't say Gordon won a ring, though I believe he still received one, I said the team won a ring in 2018... Sony Michel was a huge reason why.

But you're really good at telling us what BB should have done years later... any surprises coming up in the conference championship games, I'd like to cash in?

SteveBsFan · Jan 19, 2021

crawhammer said:
But the facts are the facts. Brady in his very first season without Belichick has accomplished what Belichick couldn't do in 8 opportunities... win more than 1 playoff game. Think about this, in 8 full seasons, Belichick managed one playoff birth as a wild card team and won 1 game. Brady in one season has 2 playoff wins and possibly still counting. Brady doesn't need Belichick to be successful. Belichick has only been successful with Brady. These are facts.

What a weird thing to compare. Belichick is building an entire team. Brady has to show up and throw the ball. It's a million times easier for a star player in any league to join a stacked roster and make it better than it is building a franchise. Just ask Dan Gilbert with his promise to win a championship before LeBron did.

There have been games where Brady picked up for Belichick and vice versa. Brady basically beat the Falcons while BB came up with a defensive game plan to shut down the second best offense (Rams) to 3 points with Brady putting up a 71 rating that night. Brady almost beat Philly himself while BB's gameplan beat the Rams the first time.

Neither would have the same level of success without each other. Brady's season with a stacked TB offense does not subtract from 20 years of stable team building by BB.

TheRainMaker · Jan 19, 2021

Wozzy said:
There's numerous reasons why the 2019 offense failed, Tom being injured chief among them.

He looked fine to me. The skill players around him were pathetic.

Wozzy said:
You sure throw the "excuses" word around a lot. Are you afraid to share your expertise and ability to see into the future with the rest of us?

No, I'm not psychic. Again, pick up a draft magazine or pick a player from the experts boards. You'll probably hit on more picks than Bill.

Wozzy said:
I didn't say Gordon won a ring, though I believe he still received one, I said the team won a ring in 2018

Okay, but it had nothing to do with the FA signings in 2019.

Wozzy said:
But you're really good at telling us what BB should have done years later...

Reread what I wrote. Many on the board were saying the same thing THAT YEAR, NOT YEARS LATER. Bill has been drafting poorly since 2013 with a few good picks sprinkled in there. Only one Pro Bowler and All Pro has been drafted since 2013 (Collins made both in 2015). Two special teams guys made the All Pro team this year. That's not going to get it done.

Wozzy said:
any surprises coming up in the conference championship games, I'd like to cash in?

Bills win if Mahomes doesn't play. I like the Bucs.

Chiefs-Bucs were my preseason Super Bowl pick in the Season Prediction thread. Look it up.

crawhammer · Jan 19, 2021

Wozzy said:
So far the "pro-Belichick" crowd is owning this conversation, at least until someone can refute the math... they can't. Just FYI I'm pro Patriots, I like both Bill and Tom.

Brady going to a handpicked superteam

You do this repeatedly, say something, then completely contradict yourself. Claiming Brady went to a "handpicked super team" is obviously anti-Brady. So no, you don't like Brady, it's a safe bet you want Tampa Bay to lose this weekend 35-0 with Brady throwing 5 pick-6's.

By the way, your super team was a turnover machine in 2019 with a 7-9 record. Currently they're 13-5 and in the NFC championship game. The difference... Tom Brady.

Wozzy said:
Your soap operatic narrative is tired, the day Brady told Kraft he was leaving they called Bill and the three had a healthy cry together.

I'm 'overdramatic' with my facts but you have Tom, Bill and Bob hugging it out with wet hankies.

Wozzy said:
The only animus as far as I can tell if by you jokers.

Do you see the irony?

Wozzy said:
I'm sure Bill sat Tom down and told him the financial realities the Patriots were facing last offseason and it colored his decision. If BB wanted to be a **** he could have franchise tagged Brady instead of granting him a release.

So which is it? The Patriots were in cap jail or they were in a position to franchise tag Brady at $27 million? Both can't be true despite you wanting to talk out of both sides of your mouth to suit whichever argument you're making from literally one second to the next.

Wozzy said:
BB drafted Tom Brady.

At 199. Seriously, BB had no clue. Dumb Luck is all.

Wozzy said:
You applying more credit to Brady is misguided fangasms, it's cheerleading.

It's being discussed and debated anywhere that professional sports has relevance. I'd assume this forum is a good landing spot for such a debate. You don't like it because you're on the wrong side of the argument.

Wozzy said:
Tampa has a window, don't come crawling back after the window has closed... we don't need you.

Who's we? If you're referring to the IBWT groupies then you can't throw me out because I was never in.

And yeah, Brady won't play until he's 50. I get it. In the meantime, he's still elite and he's still pursuing titles, for a franchise other than the Patriots. But continue to talk up BB the bean counter, see where that gets you.

fightingirish595 · Jan 20, 2021

TheRainMaker said:
Classic excuse for Team Bill's representatives and a bad one. They had plenty of draft capital in 2018 and 2019 to get elite talent, but Bill wasted it. Traded Cooks, then passed on WR Ridley for a T on IR for the 3rd straight year. Took a DB they did not need in the 2nd round who was traded a year later for a bag of chips.

Traded their 3rd rounder.

2019, signed a bunch of scrubs at WR and brought back a quitter in Gordon which is probably why Bill miscalculated and only drafted one WR in Harry. Took a worthless DB in the 2nd round when the secondary was the strongest unit on the team over Metcalf (arguably one of the best WR's in the league), Brown, Samuel, Hardman.

Took Damien Harris in round 3 which I think will be a good player, but didn't play with Brady.

Bill had plenty of chances in the last two years to get some elite talent, but put his resources to terrible use.

I’m talking about after the end of last season. There just wasn’t much that could be done.

NG Pats Fan · Jan 20, 2021

Wozzy said:
There's numerous reasons why the 2019 offense failed, Tom being injured chief among them.

You sure throw the "excuses" word around a lot. Are you afraid to share your expertise and ability to see into the future with the rest of us?

I didn't say Gordon won a ring, though I believe he still received one, I said the team won a ring in 2018... Sony Michel was a huge reason why.

But you're really good at telling us what BB should have done years later... any surprises coming up in the conference championship games, I'd like to cash in?

we could have drafted his Far better college teammate who would have done just as well in 2018 postseason behind that leagues best o line along with giving us another 5-7 years of all pro play instead of a guy who will be out of nfl in a couple years

NG Pats Fan · Jan 20, 2021

fightingirish595 said:
I’m talking about after the end of last season. There just wasn’t much that could be done.

actually there was. Draft better! Stop passing up on pro bowl talents!

Tony2046 · Jan 20, 2021

TheRainMaker said:
Classic excuse for Team Bill's representatives and a bad one. They had plenty of draft capital in 2018 and 2019 to get elite talent, but Bill wasted it. Traded Cooks, then passed on WR Ridley for a T on IR for the 3rd straight year. Took a DB they did not need in the 2nd round who was traded a year later for a bag of chips.

Traded their 3rd rounder.

2019, signed a bunch of scrubs at WR and brought back a quitter in Gordon which is probably why Bill miscalculated and only drafted one WR in Harry. Took a worthless DB in the 2nd round when the secondary was the strongest unit on the team over Metcalf (arguably one of the best WR's in the league), Brown, Samuel, Hardman.

Took Damien Harris in round 3 which I think will be a good player, but didn't play with Brady.

Bill had plenty of chances in the last two years to get some elite talent, but put his resources to terrible use.

This is just hindsight BS.

@BaconGrundleCandy puts his picks up before the draft. He and a few others have room to talk.
The rest of us are just a bunch of Monday morning QBs.

Hindsight BS is meaningless.

Tony2046 · Jan 20, 2021

crawhammer said:
You do this repeatedly, say something, then completely contradict yourself. Claiming Brady went to a "handpicked super team" is obviously anti-Brady. So no, you don't like Brady, it's a safe bet you want Tampa Bay to lose this weekend 35-0 with Brady throwing 5 pick-6's.

By the way, your super team was a turnover machine in 2019 with a 7-9 record. Currently they're 13-5 and in the NFC championship game. The difference... Tom Brady.

I'm 'overdramatic' with my facts but you have Tom, Bill and Bob hugging it out with wet hankies.

Do you see the irony?

So which is it? The Patriots were in cap jail or they were in a position to franchise tag Brady at $27 million? Both can't be true despite you wanting to talk out of both sides of your mouth to suit whichever argument you're making from literally one second to the next.

At 199. Seriously, BB had no clue. Dumb Luck is all.

It's being discussed and debated anywhere that professional sports has relevance. I'd assume this forum is a good landing spot for such a debate. You don't like it because you're on the wrong side of the argument.

Who's we? If you're referring to the IBWT groupies then you can't throw me out because I was never in.

And yeah, Brady won't play until he's 50. I get it. In the meantime, he's still elite and he's still pursuing titles, for a franchise other than the Patriots. But continue to talk up BB the bean counter, see where that gets you.

I find it funny that yor other thread got moved to the sub forum. Hahaha

VJCPatriot · Jan 20, 2021

BB pushed Brady out the door. He was tired of sharing credit with the "GOAT" of QBs. Basically he didn't believe in Tom anymore and refused to offer him 2 years. Hindsight being 20/20 It's obvious that Brady was not washed up. He just couldn't carry an offense with ZERO talent around him anymore. He needed help and got none!

BB did the same thing to Gronk a couple years earlier, basically forcing him into retirement. BB also tightened things up and kept Brady's personal trainer off the Patriots grounds for quite a while. Don't kid yourself. Anything that happens in that building in Foxboro is under BB's control.

And when Kraft was asked by Brady to support him, cowardly Kraft of course stuck with BB's decision. I'm guessing his rationale was that players don't play forever but the Head Coach can be there a LONG time. The Patriots moved on from Brady and BB was the driving force behind that decision. Was 50m over 2 years too much for a franchise caliber QB? That salary of 25M is only tied for 15th in the NFL!!

SVN · Jan 20, 2021

TheRainMaker said:
The most used cop out. HINDSIGHT! I agreed with the Michel pick as they needed a RB and he was arguably the top prospect at that position, but he doesn't look like he was the right pick long-term. I have no problem with that.

Ridley was the top WR prospect in 2018 who this board was screaming for. Trade Cooks but ignore the WR position?

Harry was not a better prospect than Metcalf and his broken neck, Brown or Samuel. Many, if not all, on this board were screaming Metcalf, Brown or Samuel. Harry came out of left f***ing field and has been a disaster. That was not "hindsight".

There was no need to take DB's in the 2nd round when that unit was the strongest and there was other pressing needs! Why is that so hard to understand? Any idiot could've picked up a draft magazine or went off of Kiper's/McShay's draft board and picked better than BB the last 3 years now.

Gordon did not win a ring with Brady in 2018. He quit on the team in 2018. Hogan left after the 2018 season. Again, I was referring to the worthless FA signings in 2019.

Well its just 1 yr . Teams have down yrs sometimes. So they messed up 2019 . But won in 2018, went to 3 SBs before that.

TheRainMaker · Jan 20, 2021

fightingirish595 said:
I’m talking about after the end of last season. There just wasn’t much that could be done.

I misunderstood your original post. I agree, by that time it was too late.

TheRainMaker · Jan 20, 2021

Tony2046 said:
This is just hindsight BS.

@BaconGrundleCandy puts his picks up before the draft. He and a few others have room to talk.
The rest of us are just a bunch of Monday morning QBs.

Hindsight BS is meaningless.

Taking DB’s high in the draft when it was already the strongest position group on the team is not hindsight.

Let’s see if Bill does it 4 years in a row.

Why the hell did we not try harder to keep TB12?

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