Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

Chris Stevenson said:

May I ask you a question? Why do you care how many yards Brady threw for? So, you care more about the yards, then him seeing a pocket break down and him not tuck it and take the sack?

Why?

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That was a fantastic game by Brady for the most part. As good as his game last year or against the Seahawks. I don't get your point.

SalemPats said:

1) There is no way Butler could have been worse than Rowe/Bademosi/Jordan

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According to Bill Belichick there was. I’ll trust his judgment over yours, particularly when it blatantly obvious that there was a reason that you do not know about.
Bill Belichick chose to pkay butker 98% of the snaps all season and nothing on those snaps made him waiver right up through the AFCCG. That is what you have to base your judgment on that. B.B. showed all
Season long he agreed with.
Then while preparing for the SB Belichick list confidence, totally, in butker. We do not know what caused that we just base our opinion of butler on bbs decision that he was a clear starter all year.
The facts needed to judge the decision are not at your disposal.
How hard is that to understand?

- Butler was also a good tackler who adds speed to a slow defense. He was one of our top players this seasons and player 98% of all defensive snaps. Very dumb argument, you lose here

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All things B.B. took into consideration. Still the part we don’t know caused him to make what I’m sure was a gut wrenching decision.
I’m sure he was 100% aware thrvteam he was putting on the field in the Sb wasn’t as good as the team he played the season with because butler was missing, yet he still did it which tells me the part we don’t know was enormous.

2) You proved my point, he made a huge mistake that cost us the SB. Thank you for making our argument

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How do you kniw it was a huge mistake if you don’t know the alternative? What was wrong with butker? How much if a downgrade from his normal play would butler have been. Can’t answer without knowing what was going on.

3) I don't care, we're playing int he SB, play your best and do your job. This is his last game as a Patriot

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I have no doubt that in the afccg with butler out there B.B. felt he was playing his best and it thr sb with butler sitting he also felt he was playing his best.
We just don’t know what happened with butler that changed that.

You lost this argument bad, please give up

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It is literally impossible for me to lose an argument when my argument is you can’t make a judgment without all of the facts.

I get that there is a lynch mob mentality and that mentality wants to attach reason but asking the lynch mob to get all the facts is not an “argument” it’s sanity.

SalemPats said:

1) There is no way Butler could have been worse than Rowe/Bademosi/Jordan - Butler was also a good tackler who adds speed to a slow defense. He was one of our top players this seasons and player 98% of all defensive snaps. Very dumb argument, you lose here
2) You proved my point, he made a huge mistake that cost us the SB. Thank you for making our argument
3) I don't care, we're playing int he SB, play your best and do your job. This is his last game as a Patriot

You lost this argument bad, please give up

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Bademosi was not bad. I've sen Butler whiff 1 billion times on open field tackles this year.

1 billion.

Bademosi played only 11 snaps. All of this stuff should have been handled differently. That's where your complaint should go.

Gilmore on Agoholor
Bademosi on Smith
Rowe/Harmon on Jeffrey
Chung on Ertz
Flowers on Clement

Can you tell which things were wrong based on what you saw?

Chris Stevenson said:

May I ask you a question? Why do you care how many yards Brady threw for? So, you care more about the yards, then him seeing a pocket break down and him not tuck it and take the sack?

Why?

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I think your whole response about blaming brady over this game throughout this thread is strange. Clearly you feel strongly against his performance which is clouding your logical arguments.

SVN said:

The irony is that BB went for it on 4th and 5 instead of trying a FG, tried the pass to brady etc and took chances with those play calls. But he felt taking a chance to play butler on a single snap was risky. Go figure.

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Agreed - they were going for broke (like they should) on O. On D, oh let's just stick with the same unworkable BS. Nothing going on here. What a crock!

mosi said:

That was a fantastic game by Brady for the most part. As good as his game last year or against the Seahawks. I don't get your point.

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2nd half, he was on fire. Absolutely. Do we have to wait until second halves to see how look good, though? That's my point.

Why does no one care we looks like a confused deer in the headlights in the red zone with all of these weapons available and a supposed great OC?

Where was Burkhead?

SVN said:

I think your whole response about blaming brady over this game throughout this thread is strange. Clearly you feel strongly against his performance which is clouding your logical arguments.

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What?

I am not blaming Brady. I am point out to the Brady Lovers, the hyenas that smell blood, listen to Felger and Mazz every day, and can't see straight, why on earth they think having such slow offensive starts, is a positive thing for the team?

Can you explain why?

The Philly D was atrocious. It was a shootout. We lost and they were granted a free TD!

SVN said:

I think your whole response about blaming brady over this game throughout this thread is strange. Clearly you feel strongly against his performance which is clouding your logical arguments.

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Well, Brady did get strip-sacked and that pretty much lost the game. We shouldn't completely ignore that.

Other than that, his second half was amazing.

SVN said:

I think your whole response about blaming brady over this game throughout this thread is strange. Clearly you feel strongly against his performance which is clouding your logical arguments.

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He's moving the yardsticks after his curfew/pot explanation got blown out of the water

Chris Stevenson said:

Did those guys clear out a locker before playing in those games? Did they mentally check out?

Did they bad mouth coaches in front of the whole team on SB week?

No, no and no.

You lost. Get over it. Binky Butler checked out and quit on his team.

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Stop with your B.S.

Many, including Belichick himself, said Butler didn’t play because of performance, not discipline. Shefter said his sources say it was performance, Minnehan’s sources said it was performance. So stop with your B.S about bad mouthing coaches in front of the whole team garbage and that Butler was doing things to hurt the team all week.

AndyJohnson said:

Rowe worked with the 1s all week. Rowe was not consistently covering Jeffrey.

Now you are just making things up.

As far a butler we do not know what caused the decision. How hard is that to understand?

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What exactly am I making up? Yes, he switched the assignments after the damage had already been done and, as expected, Gilmore took Jeffery out of the game. But then the Eagles changed their offensive scheme, exploiting matchup in slot. Rowe, the CB who usually plays there, was on Smith outside, while Belichick continued to rotate safeties on Agholor. And Foles gladly accepted it. You dont need an MIT degree to see you have to use all three available CBs and send Bademosi on Smith and Rowe in slot. I doubt he would have shut Agholor down but there was no need to make things easy for him by rushing overmatched safety snap after snap.

neuronet said:

Well, Brady did get strip-sacked and that pretty much lost the game. We shouldn't completely ignore that.

Other than that, his second half was amazing.

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That my friend is what we call a double standard.

Tom is the GOAT and he gets a pass for ****ty ball security (Note: I am ok with giving him a pass).

Shaq Mason skates by too.

BB doesn't get a pass for a football decision even though hes the GOAT.

PatsDeb said:

Agreed - they were going for broke (like they should) on O. On D, oh let's just stick with the same unworkable BS. Nothing going on here. What a crock!

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I have been warning about Gostwkoski being overrated for YEARS AND YEARS.

It started in 2011, when he came back from his leg injury, but this isn't about the health or strength of his leg. It's focus and how he strikes the ball. It's been terrible overall. BB doesn't trust him.

We lost SB 42 over that and the title game in 2015.

And now on Sunday, with a chip shot 33 yard PAT?

How do you miss that in a dome?

Chris Stevenson said:

Did those guys clear out a locker before playing in those games? Did they mentally check out?

Did they bad mouth coaches in front of the whole team on SB week?

No, no and no.

You lost. Get over it. Binky Butler checked out and quit on his team.

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But Andy says we don't know the reason Butler was benched and it had to have been a BIG one because BB would never bench someone for no good reason. You get over it. Butler isn't my binky. If he did all these things then good riddance, but you don't blow the Super Bowl over what you've written above (which Andy should point out to you, you are just making up). Win the game then deal with Butler.

Chris Stevenson said:

What?

I am not blaming Brady. I am point out to the Brady Lovers, the hyenas that smell blood, listen to Felger and Mazz every day, and can't see straight, why on earth they think having such slow offensive starts, is a positive thing for the team?

Can you explain why?

The Philly D was atrocious. It was a shootout. We lost and they were granted a free TD!

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1200 posts in just over a month lol

Chris Stevenson said:

I have been warning about Gostwkoski being overrated for YEARS AND YEARS.

It started in 2011, when he came back from his leg injury, but this isn't about the health or strength of his leg. It's focus and how he strikes the ball. It's been terrible overall. BB doesn't trust him.

We lost SB 42 over that and the title game in 2015.

And now on Sunday, with a chip shot 33 yard PAT?

How do you miss that in a dome?

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Well their guy also missed a chip shot PAT. Gost was the least of our problems on Sunday.

robertweathers said:

That my friend is what we call a double standard.

Tom is the GOAT and he gets a pass for ****ty ball security (Note: I am ok with giving him a pass).

Shaq Mason skates by too.

BB doesn't get a pass for a football decision even though hes the GOAT.

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I understand what you are saying, but Brady’s fumble (and Mason’s failure to block Graham) happened on one play where there was NOTHING the team could have done afterwards to correct it. On the other hand, Belichick had all game to think about putting Butler in. Bill’s mistake was correctable, Tom’s was not.

PatsDeb said:

Are you joking? Wes Welker? Richard Seymour? Chandler Jones?

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Wait. Your argument is that a coach should abandon team roles and discipline? Wow, I guess if we did it your way we wouldn’t have to worry about losing Super Bowls or ever getting near them.
But which of these players were benched for an entire game, much less Sb?

You get on BB's bad list and you are benched, gone, whatever.

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And in other tens you can do whatever you want? And that would be better?

It's just that here BB didn't have time to dump your sorry ass in his usual fashion, so he used the Super Bowl and cost his team a win (he also cost his team a win in the other "benching" games. It's just that they weren't the Super Bowl so they don't stick out as much).

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So what did butler do that made belichick give him more severe punishment than any other player has been given?

If you think that part of the BB "way" isn't making players who don't fall exactly into line "pay" in some fashion, you're right, we got nothing to talk about.

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There have been many players that didn’t “fall in line” and none were benched for the SB.

It amazes me that you have watched how this dynasty has occurred and then as soon as something happens that you don’t like you decide that the coaching philosophy should be that there are no standards, no rules and the coach should get out of the way and let the players do whatever they want and have them entitled to playing time.

neuronet said:

Well, Brady did get strip-sacked and that pretty much lost the game. We shouldn't completely ignore that.

Other than that, his second half was amazing.

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Mistakes happen on the field. Players commit mistakes.Execution issues happen. That is sports. Without that, games would never end. But you have to be on the field to make mistakes or to see if they make mistakes.
Brady didnt get strip sacked because he decided that its best for the football team. Butler was benched for 4 Quarters because BB thought it was best for the football team. Pointing at brady strip sack and saying that lost the game is a poor excuse IMO.

TommyBrady12 said:

I understand what you are saying, but Brady’s fumble (and Mason’s failure to block Graham) happened on one play where there was NOTHING the team could have done afterwards to correct it. On the other hand, Belichick had all game to think about putting Butler in. Bill’s mistake was correctable, Tom’s was not.

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Comparing execution on one play to a catastrophic decision played out over 4 hours is ridiculous.