Random news around the league

tuckeverlasting · Jul 10, 2016

Galeb said:
I'm not a huge Treky, but the new Spock/Kirk characters and their chemistry are brilliant. Anton Yelchin was a great young Chekov too. He will be missed.

wow !! didn't even know that kid had passed. terrible !!

the guy who plays bones is spot on. they're all good.

Brady_to_Moss · Jul 10, 2016

Rex Ryan had a dream about the patriots

RobertWeathers · Jul 10, 2016

Galeb said:
I'm not a huge Treky, but the new Spock/Kirk characters and their chemistry are brilliant. Anton Yelchin was a great young Chekov too. He will be missed.

Agreed on the charaters. They did a great job with the new cast.

The first new one was decent. The second one was excellent. They could have done a better job with Kahns likeness but Cumberbach was excellent.

The new Uhura and Carol Marcus are babes.

supafly · Jul 10, 2016

PatsBoy12 said:
How many of those were when the team absolutely needed them? How many of them came in the second half of the season? And why was our "leader" on the bench in the AFCCG? I don't believe I ever heard anything about an injury. A bulk of those 12.5 sack numbers came against lesser teams. Titans, Dolphins, etc. What about against the run? Stats don't tell the whole story and never will.

Again, I'm not saying he was a bad player. That would not be true. But he was not elite. I will never change that opinion of his time in New England. They wouldn't have traded him otherwise. Elite DE's don't grow on trees. Versus someone like Nink who makes plays when they matter most, never misses games, plays other positions and is stout against the run. All things Jones lacks. And Ninko was a team captain, but Jones.

I agree with the majority of your thoughts, with the one area that I respectfully disagree being that it was strictly football related. In my opinion, any possibility of retaining Jones went out the window when he decided to go out and party during the most important (at the time--divisional round) week of the season. Hell, he didn't "just" party, but he overdosed in some capacity, showed up shirtless and barefoot at the police dept, and made national sports headlines for his actions. It may have been simply too much to look past when attempting to assess the kind of major money that one would with a new long term deal.

I don't know if some of the concern may have been drug use, immaturity, or both--but I would have to think that at least had something to do with the decision. Obviously, that's just my personal opinion, as you may be much closer to being correct than me, but it's hard for me to imagine Belichick not taking that into account.

patfanken · Jul 11, 2016

I would really like to think that we are above the normal fan base who immediately dumps on a player the day he winds up on another team. Chandler Jones was a very good football player for the Patriots for the 4 years he was here. He was well worth the first round pick the Pats made for him in the early 20's IIRC.

He was a good, but not great pass rusher. He was a good but not great run defender. His individual pass rushing numbers in sacks, hits, and pressures were high enough that in the current NFL he inevitably would have been overpaid (See O Vernon) and lost to the Pats after this season.anyway. This way the Pats got decent value with the 2nd round pick, and it might turn into a great value if Cooper ever approaches his potential. It was a deal that made great sense to both teams

He's not gone because he wasn't clutch, or a druggie. He's gone because he was simply the odd man out in the cap crunch that was caused buy the great drafts we've had the last few years. As it is most mediots think we aren't going to be able to sign everyone as it is. Imagine if we had to pay Jones as well. Even Miguel couldn't make that one work out.

So lets not pretend that his individual talent won't be missed. It will, whether we'd like to admit it or not. But I WILL take solace in the fact that in our best years, BB managed to create a lot of pressure WITHOUT having to rely on the so called, individual great pass rusher. In their best years the Pats were always among the top 10 sack leaders while individuals like McGinest and Vrabel only had one year each in their careers when they had 10 or more sacks.

Last year the Pats were 2nd in the league in sacks. I think we can play great defense and still create TEAM pressure with the players we have. Hypothetically if Jones were a 12 sack guy, I'd take 8 from Chris Jones and make up that loss of 4 sacks among the rest of the team.

supafly · Jul 11, 2016

patfanken said:
I would really like to think that we are above the normal fan base who immediately dumps on a player the day he winds up on another team. Chandler Jones was a very good football player for the Patriots for the 4 years he was here. He was well worth the first round pick the Pats made for him in the early 20's IIRC.

He was a good, but not great pass rusher. He was a good but not great run defender. His individual pass rushing numbers in sacks, hits, and pressures were high enough that in the current NFL he inevitably would have been overpaid (See O Vernon) and lost to the Pats after this season.anyway. This way the Pats got decent value with the 2nd round pick, and it might turn into a great value if Cooper ever approaches his potential. It was a deal that made great sense to both teams

He's not gone because he wasn't clutch, or a druggie. He's gone because he was simply the odd man out in the cap crunch that was caused buy the great drafts we've had the last few years. As it is most mediots think we aren't going to be able to sign everyone as it is. Imagine if we had to pay Jones as well. Even Miguel couldn't make that one work out.

So lets not pretend that his individual talent won't be missed. It will, whether we'd like to admit it or not. But I WILL take solace in the fact that in our best years, BB managed to create a lot of pressure WITHOUT having to rely on the so called, individual great pass rusher. In their best years the Pats were always among the top 10 sack leaders while individuals like McGinest and Vrabel only had one year each in their careers when they had 10 or more sacks.

Last year the Pats were 2nd in the league in sacks. I think we can play great defense and still create TEAM pressure with the players we have. Hypothetically if Jones were a 12 sack guy, I'd take 8 from Chris Jones and make up that loss of 4 sacks among the rest of the team.

Good thoughts, Ken.

I agree that we'll certainly miss Jones, and that he was the obvious choice as the "odd man out" that you referred to. Understanding that, one could make the argument that his late season disappearing acts and decision to use illegal substances may have helped to place him lower in the list of priorities than guys like Hightower, Butler, and even Sheard. I would think that we could debate that issue for days, with no clear cut answer either way.

I think you make an excellent point reminding us that Belichick uses the draft/rookie pacts better than most, if not all other clubs. As you mentioned, not every high round draft pick will be retained for various reasons, but there's no disputing the fact that Jones provided both production and good value during his days here.

PatsBoy12 · Jul 11, 2016

supafly said:
I agree with the majority of your thoughts, with the one area that I respectfully disagree being that it was strictly football related. In my opinion, any possibility of retaining Jones went out the window when he decided to go out and party during the most important (at the time--divisional round) week of the season. Hell, he didn't "just" party, but he overdosed in some capacity, showed up shirtless and barefoot at the police dept, and made national sports headlines for his actions. It may have been simply too much to look past when attempting to assess the kind of major money that one would with a new long term deal.

I don't know if some of the concern may have been drug use, immaturity, or both--but I would have to think that at least had something to do with the decision. Obviously, that's just my personal opinion, as you may be much closer to being correct than me, but it's hard for me to imagine Belichick not taking that into account.

I hear you, Fly. I just can't help but think it had way more to do with football than anything. If Jones was killing it, I think he'd still be on this team. But you could be right, buddy. I liked Jones a lot. He really did seem like a good guy overall, a good locker room guy and he was not a bad player. I just got tired of always looking for him to do something in the critical moments, and it seldom, if ever, happened. An elite player is supposed to step up. In fact, that's why some players come to be known as elite. Ty Law, for example, was great all the time. But he somehow found a way to be even better in the biggest games and/or moments. Jones could never do it.

I'll tell you what, though. I can't wait to see him as an OLB, which is what I hear they are moving him to in AZ. I'm interested to see that transition. I wish him well and hope he produces in every game except the first one.

supafly · Jul 11, 2016

PatsBoy12 said:
I hear you, Fly. I just can't help but think it had way more to do with football than anything. If Jones was killing it, I think he'd still be on this team.

I think that's a very valid point. Good call when you break it down like that. I'd have to agree that if he were performing like say, Seymour (I'm setting the bar fairly high), Belichick may have been able to look past it in some capacity.

Of course, all we can do is speculate, but at the end of the day he was brought here to be a football player, and after 4 fairly productive years (at times), his price was likely going to be too high to retain. Let's hope that we don't have to bring up this conversation again regarding guys like Collins, etc.

Random news around the league

tuckeverlasting

In the Starting Line-Up

Brady_to_Moss

28-3....

RobertWeathers

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

supafly

Eff you, Shula

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter

supafly

Eff you, Shula

PatsBoy12

Pro Bowl Player

supafly

Eff you, Shula

Similar threads