Vincent Valentine - Glass half full?

It's the consensus that Valentine should not have com out this year after an injury plagued 2015 and likely injury in 2014 [dragging his leg against USC].

Obviously not much video on youtube, but injured big guys tend to put on bad weight and that's the essence of a bargain sometimes? Since he'll get time to heal and good training, let's look at the upside for a young player. His freshman after redshirt year.

Seems to be a bit more athletic, given his inexperience here. I'm hopeful we got a bargain, but you never know if he'll rise to the occasion.

When you're 6'4 and 329 with a 17 rep 225 max, you're either piss weak or have never been conditioned properly. I'm holding onto the ceiling is high and with that, the performance will come.

ausbacker said:

When you're 6'4 and 329 with a 17 rep 220 max, you're either piss weak or have never been conditioned properly. I'm holding onto the ceiling is high and with that, the performance will come.

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He seemed to bench press a couple OLinemen effectively there.

They rolled the dice on the kid but you can't teach size. He'll play 15-20 snaps a game and do OK.

Hopefully he'll be fit and fiddle rearing to go in 2017 as its unlikely Branch and Pot Roast are back.

RayClay said:

He seemed to bench press a couple OLinemen effectively there.

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I rarely if ever appraise players on their highlights. I'm more interested in their median performance.

ausbacker said:

I rarely if ever appraise players on their highlights. I'm more interested in their median performance.

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His median is ankle injuries. He doesn't need to play much for a while, so I assume he might heal.

The taller you are the "longer" your bench press stroke. I'm 6'1" and I have to move weight a lot farther than someone 5'8". Someone 6'4" has to move the weight up and down more than I do, assuming good form and lockout. I have a long torso and arms.

I get annoyed with Internet jocks saying benching anything other than 20+ reps at 225 is weak. Not all power is on the bench.

dtbrks said:

The taller you are the "longer" your bench press stroke. I'm 6'1" and I have to move weight a lot farther than someone 5'8". Someone 6'4" has to move the weight up and down more than I do, assuming good form and lockout. I have a long torso and arms.

I get annoyed with Internet jocks saying benching anything other than 20+ reps at 225 is weak. Not all power is on the bench.

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For a regular person, he's exceptionally strong. But we're comparing him to other NFL defensive tackles who are almost all over 6' and for his position, he does have a weak bench press. That should be alright though as they'll get him in their training program. They probably don't expect him to contribute much as a rookie anyway and as long as he works hard, he should be ready to go in 2017.

I'm 46, can bench 225 30 or so times. He would probably roll me all over on the field.

Maybe I'm being sensitive because people make such stupid judgemts about these athletes.

I want my oline guys to squat and deadlift heavy and bench is secondary

ausbacker said:

When you're 6'4 and 329 with a 17 rep 220 max, you're either piss weak or have never been conditioned properly. I'm holding onto the ceiling is high and with that, the performance will come.

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Do you bench press often? First the bench is 225lbs, second the bench reps are more about stamina than they are strength.

Seems like NE drafted a few players whose tape doesn't jump out at you or maybe whose stats don't tell a promising tale, but they think have a lot of undiscovered potential. Valentine kind of epitomizes that... He hasn't done much, but that doesn't mean he won't grow to do a whole lot. You may as well roll the dice on high ceilings when you have a stacked roster.

I mean, they unearthed some kid named Malcolm Butler who no one had ever heard of, he became a super bowl hero as a rookie and then the #1 CB as a sophomore. It can certainly happen for Valentine.

Brady6 said:

Do you bench press often? First the bench is 225lbs, second the bench reps are more about stamina than they are strength.

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Yes, I keep myself fit and healthy and you're right, it's 225. That was an oversight on my behalf.

I would have said it's both about strength and stamina. 225lbs (100kgs) is a lot of weight to move around for a lot of reps. Right now, Vincent appears to have neither.

ausbacker said:

Yes, I keep myself fit and healthy and you're right, it's 225. That was an oversight on my behalf.

I would have said it's both about strength and stamina. 225lbs (100kgs) is a lot of weight to move around for a lot of reps. Right now, Vincent appears to have neither.

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I think he needs improve his conditioning dramatically. If he can do that he is a very talented player. Hicks had a similar problem which is why NO traded him.

Brady6 said:

I think he needs improve his conditioning dramatically. If he can do that he is a very talented player. Hicks had a similar problem which is why NO traded him.

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He had ankle issues and he likes to eat like all big men. Not saying he will succeed, but he looks pretty dynamic when healthy against Iowa.

Brady6 said:

I think he needs improve his conditioning dramatically. If he can do that he is a very talented player. Hicks had a similar problem which is why NO traded him.

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No doubt, he's an intriguing prospect. Some of his highlights are outstanding but I always manage to temper my enthusiasm when I ask myself what's the likelihood of this player being a hit, can the Patriots maximize his ability, and how do I think he'll go against other pros? Really, it's a huge jump from College to the NFL but I like to err on the side of caution whilst being somewhat optimistic the Pats will hit on a few players every season.

RayClay said:

He had ankle issues and he likes to eat like all big men. Not saying he will succeed, but he looks pretty dynamic when healthy against Iowa.

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I am totally with you I think he is a really intriguing player who is certainly worthy of a compensatory draft pick.

745 pound squat ... for comparison Vince Wilfork 505 Lb squat.
Joe andruzzi has(d) the previous record at 725lbs ...
Ethan Kelley had the DL record 685lbs.



Could be the strongest Patriot lineman ever.
He's better suited to a 2-gap team and was not utilized to his strengths in college.

2016 NFL Draft: Rookie DT Vincent Valentine Might Be the Strongest Player in Patriots History

IcyPatriot said:

745 pound squat ... for comparison Vince Wilfork 505 Lb squat.
Joe andruzzi has(d) the previous record at 725lbs ...
Ethan Kelley had the DL record 685lbs.



Could be the strongest Patriot lineman ever.
He's better suited to a 2-gap team and was not utilized to his strengths in college.

2016 NFL Draft: Rookie DT Vincent Valentine Might Be the Strongest Player in Patriots History

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With the greatest respect and having a little experience in the area, although incredibly impressive to move that weight, I'm not sure that would pass most testing regimes as a good lift. Still, if the Patriots can even just tweak that rawness, wow.

Apparently Valentine is pretty athletic for his size:

"
Valentine is a physically imposing prospect at 6'3 5/8 and 329 lbs. His 5.19 second 40 yard dash is incredibly impressive for his size, becoming just the 16th defensive tackle prospect to weigh greater than 325 lbs and run a sub-5.2 over the past decade.

Even more impressive are his explosion and agility scores. His 9'2 broad jump is the best of any 325+ lbs defensive tackle in the past decade, and his 4.59 second shuttle is the second best of the era (trailing only Chiefs stalwart Dontari Poe). "

2016 NFL Draft: Why Did the Patriots Draft DT Vincent Valentine?

I see Valentine as a Knighton replacement in '17. He has an impressive bullrush and looks to be a NT that can get pressure by collapsing the interior OL rather than penetrating a gap, much like Wilfork did (no, that's not suggesting he can be anywhere as good as Wilfork).