* Your Call: "43" or "34" or "425" or "245"?? *

[Off The Grid]

Forget "Base": What's Your Favorite Defensive Formation??

I think we can all agree that, regardless of what the alleged "Base" Defense ends up being, that "Base" will only command part of the Defensive Pie.

So this Poll is really about: Which Formation ~ regardless of "Base" ~ do you want to see on the Field most often??

But I thought it might be interesting to discuss ~ and vote ~ on what Formations appeal to each of us, and for what reasons...Interested?

***

One play in particular that keeps coming up in my mind's eye is a play that was applied against us, in the Lions game, when ~ please DO correct me if I'm wrong, a distinct possibility ~ the Lions appeared to be formed up in a 245, applied a Stunt ~ IF that's the right term!! ~ and Kong sacked Brady.

FootBall, at its core, is simply a derivative of War...

I believe that, as a rule of thumb, Battles ~ and Wars ~ are very advantageously fought by deploying a minimum of Troops on the Front Line, and keeping one's options wide open...IF the Troops command both exceptional Diagnostic Acuity + Processing Speed AND the Speed + Power to put it to good use...as did the astonishingly well-trained Prussian Army of Lore:

Frederick The Great's MasterPiece: The Battle of Leuthen

So, yes...I am developing an increasing affinity for the 245.

 

[Off The Grid]

Here's Kong's Sack on Brady

Gentlemen??

Don't be too sure we don't face these guys again this year.

 

[supafly]

Here's Kong's Sack on Brady

Gentlemen??

Don't be too sure we don't face these guys again this year.

You are making some BOLD predictions this week, my knowledgeable friend..

3 SB's--back to back to back

19-0

Now...the possibility of playing the Lions in the Super Bowl

You always keep me entertained, I will have to say that

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Personally, I love the 2-4-5 if you have the personnel to do it. Loved watching the Packers do it at times last year under Capers. You can get so exotic with blitzes, pressure schemes, and coverages. It can be very disruptive and confusing for opponents to figure out and is very effective vs pass-heavy teams.

I've always loved creative and aggressive defenses with a ton of pre-snap movement, disguising, and blitzing from all angles. That's why I always loved Rex Ryan as a DC on Baltimore and can't stand that he's the HC of the NYJ. Loved Jim Johnson, **** LeBeau, and Capers too. It's just fun to watch.

That's why I loved the "5 and dime" that Bill unveiled in 2009 or the "Amoeba" package that Mangini used to use against us at times. I wish Bill would bring back the "5 and dime."

We've got two monsters in VW and AH to run the 2-4-5, but I don't know if we have the depth at LB to run it as well as I'd like. Guess we'll have to see.

 

[Off The Grid]

Personally, I love the 2-4-5 if you have the personnel to do it.

Loved watching the Packers do it at times last year under Capers.

You can get so exotic with blitzes, pressure schemes, and coverages. It can be very disruptive and confusing for opponents to figure out and is very effective vs pass-heavy teams.

I've always loved creative and aggressive defenses with a ton of pre-snap movement, disguising, and blitzing from all angles.

That's why I always loved Rex Ryan as a DC on Baltimore and can't stand that he's the HC of the NYJ.

Loved Jim Johnson, **** LeBeau, and Capers too. It's just fun to watch.

That's why I loved the "5 and dime" that Bill unveiled in 2009 or the "Amoeba" package that Mangini used to use against us at times. I wish Bill would bring back the "5 and dime."

We've got two monsters in VW and AH to run the 2-4-5, but I don't know if we have the depth at LB to run it as well as I'd like. Guess we'll have to see.

Ahhh....Much to love amongst this rich text, Brother 79.

***

2006 is, I believe, the last time a Super Bowl winning's DC was less vital to winning than the Head Coach.

***

2007 ~ No way in HELL that Tom Coughlin EVER wins a Super Bowl unless he lucks into an Alpha DC like Steve Spagnuolo. Coughlin's a good Coach, but he doesn't know how to develop a Championship team ~ only playoff contenders.

2008 ~ That one was all **** LeBeau, as was the 2005 Championship. Mind you: You can make an Argument in Mike Tomlin's favor, simply because he's never proven that he can't win The Big One on his own...But there can be no question that Bill Cowher ~ who I love and admire ~ had a strong case of SchottenHeimeritis.

2009 ~ I have much admiration for Sean Payton, and I see him as one of the few Head Coaches who does have the combination of Vision and Testicular Fortitude necessary to lead the way to the Super Bowl...Even so, the Saints' sudden surge from 8-8 to the Super Bowl was attributable not to their amazing Offense ~ which had already been in place ~ but to the suddenly dangerous and disruptive Defense. And of course the credit for that goes to Gregg Williams.

2010 ~ At long, long last, our boy Dom Capers wins it all!! And no way in HELL can anyone convince me ~ or you, I presume!! ~ that Capers wasn't fully responsible for the all the havoc that that wild Packer Defense wreaked, last year!!

***

Interesting side note: Caper, Williams, and Spagnuolo all just joined their teams that Championship year!!

***

I agree with every last word of that exceptional post, my friend, most emphatically including your admiration for Rex Ryan in Baltimore...And your wish that he'd found any home other than New York!!

 

[jays52]

Is there an "all the above"?

While I certainly love the flexibility of two man sets, I more enjoy being flexible in the sets you can deploy with the same personnel. Haynesworth is tall enough to play on the tackle in the 34, explosive enough to play on the guard in the 43. The 34 OLB's can play with their hand in the dirt. Offensive personnel dictates "base" defense and you have three possibilities to morph into. 34 two gap alignment, 43 over or under, all 52 derivatives, all do different things. Offense checks, you check. Suddenly the offense is put on the defensive. Miscommunication in blocking schemes, uncertainty over interior routes, timeout burned. The enemy is on their heels and you've yet to fire a round. Eloquent in it's lethality.

Extend this further to sub. Same sub personnel with a two man line of 92 and 75, and suddenly you have the 42, the 33, and the 24 all at your disposal. All can do different things without declaring through personnel. Compound this with two shutdown corners and a stable of good safeties, and you can literally do anything inside. It's not about 43 or 34, it's about the multiskers they have acquired to run either. The ambiguity and flexibility of a certain set is nice, but having the ability to seamlessly morph between several increases that advantage exponentially. The stuff Belichick will be able to do this year is going to be incredible.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I voted for the 4-2-5. That would be my base defense against passing teams. The whole league is going towards the passing game so why not? It's hard to run as a base because you can usually run on it. But, with Wilfork and Haynesworth at DT. They should do a good job of controlling that interior running game. I prefer it over the 2- 4-5 because I want two de's who can get after the qb. The Pats don't have em, neither do the Packers or Jets. That's why you see a lot of exotic blitzes. I'd rather have Osi/Strahan coming off of the edge and get my pressure that way. If one of those de's is capable of dropping into coverage great. But, I hope Cunningham develops into one of those good de's who can rush the passer. Even if he does. We still need one on the other side. If your cb's can tackle, it makes the 4-2-5 better(obviously) vs the run and Bodden/McCourty can both tackle.

We're a good de from having the personnel to run that type of defense IMO. If Cunningham steps up. Another thing to factor in going forward if we make the switch to the 4 man front. You really need to develop depth there. Can almost take a DL in the first 1-3 rounds most years in the draft.

 

[The Brandon Five]

It's not about 43 or 34, it's about the multiskers they have acquired to run either.

Sorry, I can't even guess what that was supposed to be...

multi-taskers?

 

[Off The Grid]

Is there an "all the above"?

While I certainly love the flexibility of two man sets, I more enjoy being flexible in the sets you can deploy with the same personnel.

Haynesworth is tall enough to play on the tackle in the 34, explosive enough to play on the guard in the 43. The 34 OLB's can play with their hand in the dirt. Offensive personnel dictates "base" defense and you have three possibilities to morph into. 34 two gap alignment, 43 over or under, all 52 derivatives, all do different things. Offense checks, you check. Suddenly the offense is put on the defensive. Miscommunication in blocking schemes, uncertainty over interior routes, timeout burned. The enemy is on their heels and you've yet to fire a round.

Eloquent in it's lethality.

Extend this further to sub. Same sub personnel with a two man line of 92 and 75, and suddenly you have the 42, the 33, and the 24 all at your disposal. All can do different things without declaring through personnel. Compound this with two shutdown corners and a stable of good safeties, and you can literally do anything inside. It's not about 43 or 34, it's about the multiskers they have acquired to run either.

The ambiguity and flexibility of a certain set is nice, but having the ability to seamlessly morph between several increases that advantage exponentially.

The stuff Belichick will be able to do this year is going to be incredible.

My GOD, that was brilliant work, Brother Jay!!

"All The Above!!" PERFECT!! :rocker:

I tried to add it, but it's too late...

We'll just consider this a "Write In" vote for "All The Above"...

...And you can add MINE!! :rocker:

 

[jays52]

Sorry, I can't even guess what that was supposed to be...

multi-taskers?

Yeah, that's the one! I suck at forum on the phone!

 

[BradyToAmendola]

Question for you X's and O's people.

What's the main difference in responsibilities for the OLBs in a 4-3 versus their responsibilities in a 3-4? What kind of player would you want playing SAM? A bigger guy that can take on the tight ends and fight through them to make the tackle? What kind of player do you want at WILL?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Rappaport expects the team to be using a primary 4-2-5 ... I think the same.

 

[jeffbiologist]

7 LB "mush rush"

 

[goheels22002]

Gotta love the 2-4-5 of the Detroit Lions. Result: 45-24 Patriots win. Great scheme, boneheads.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I enjoy defenses that fly around and make plays. 34, 43 it doesn't matter.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

my favorite overall is the 1 5 5 -- but not with this personnel -- basically when everyone but the nose is standing and makes the offense really have to think about who is rushing and who is not.

my favorite for this team would be 3 3 5 -- I think we potentially have from good to great talent in the secondary -- great if chung, dowling, mccourty reach their potential; and good if they just make steady progress.

 

[lurker1965]

7-0-4

I used to like 0-7-4.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Ahhh....Much to love amongst this rich text, Brother 79.

***

2006 is, I believe, the last time a Super Bowl winning's DC was less vital to winning than the Head Coach.

***

2007 ~ No way in HELL that Tom Coughlin EVER wins a Super Bowl unless he lucks into an Alpha DC like Steve Spagnuolo. Coughlin's a good Coach, but he doesn't know how to develop a Championship team ~ only playoff contenders.

2008 ~ That one was all **** LeBeau, as was the 2005 Championship. Mind you: You can make an Argument in Mike Tomlin's favor, simply because he's never proven that he can't win The Big One on his own...But there can be no question that Bill Cowher ~ who I love and admire ~ had a strong case of SchottenHeimeritis.

2009 ~ I have much admiration for Sean Payton, and I see him as one of the few Head Coaches who does have the combination of Vision and Testicular Fortitude necessary to lead the way to the Super Bowl...Even so, the Saints' sudden surge from 8-8 to the Super Bowl was attributable not to their amazing Offense ~ which had already been in place ~ but to the suddenly dangerous and disruptive Defense. And of course the credit for that goes to Gregg Williams.

2010 ~ At long, long last, our boy Dom Capers wins it all!! And no way in HELL can anyone convince me ~ or you, I presume!! ~ that Capers wasn't fully responsible for the all the havoc that that wild Packer Defense wreaked, last year!!

***

Interesting side note: Caper, Williams, and Spagnuolo all just joined their teams that Championship year!!

***

I agree with every last word of that exceptional post, my friend, most emphatically including your admiration for Rex Ryan in Baltimore...And your wish that he'd found any home other than New York!!

:rocker:

There is no doubt that the old cliche is true: defense wins championships. Excellent examples you provided. Love that you give Gregg Williams some love -- I feel he gets overlooked due to Brees and Sean Payton and how explosive that offense was.

I was a big Rex fan when he was in Baltimore and I was always nervous when we had to play them (especially in 2007 despite them being a subpar team). I was extremely disappointed when he went to the NYJ because he became the enemy and I knew he would give us more problems than any other defensive coach in football.

 

[lurker1965]

My GOD, that was brilliant work, Brother Jay!!

"All The Above!!" PERFECT!! :rocker:

I tried to add it, but it's too late...

We'll just consider this a "Write In" vote for "All The Above"...

...And you can add MINE!! :rocker:

I hate to rain on your parade, and guys that can do both is a great concept, but I want to address one common misconception. (To be fair, you don't state it, but I can see some lurker inferring it from your post.)

An experience O-line will note where Vince lines up. If right in front of the center, then he is playing two gap, or 3-4. If he lines up in the gap between the center and the guard then he is play 1 gap, or a 4-3.

An inexperienced line will be confused. Even if told of this. It is one thing to be told and another to see.

 

[D-Money]

Wateva gets to the QB.