ESPN writers on Matt Cassel

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I'm not opposed to this idea, but I'll state why I think it won't go down that way.

1. Kraft loves the Tominator.
2. Brady is the face of the franchise and is very good for the marketing of the Patriots.
3. Moss would need to go, too. He's here because of Tom.
4. Peyton Manning.

1. Kraft loved the Drewinator just as much.

2. I will concede that. But BB cares more about what puts the team in a winning position than sweatshirt sales. The stadium will sell out either way. And win the SB and the jerseys will sell anyway.

3. I am not sure that if that is 100% true. He is here because he want a ring. He might be okay with the trade if he feels the team can still win. But you might be right. I don't know, you don't know, but BB knows. Lets assume that it is true. Then trade him. We got him for a 4th. I bet we could get a first for him now (talk about growing value). Or better yet trade him to the Raiders for Asomugha. He will go back to being a malcontent, but who cares.

4. I get that. Brady is a game changer, like Peyton and Favre. But I say we go back to playing pre-2007 football. We don't depend on Brady to Moss for a TD 50 times to win a game. If Brady had not gotten injured week 1, but Moss had gone on IR during the KC game, we would probably be sitting in the same 10-6 situation we are now or maybe worse (assuming all the other injuries, problems etc)

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

KOC is the backup for either player.

Yes, but I think the likelihood of seen KOC playing 2-5 games next season is much greater if TB is the starter than if MC is the starter.

 

[patsox23]

How about Brady?

I was thinking about it. I may actually make more sense to trade Brady than Cassel.

Please, for the love of God, STOP THE MADNESS. Just stop. Even with all your caveats, this is insanity.

 

[JoeShmoe]

yeah, lets trade Tom

 

[patsox23]

There are lots of good reasons to trade Tom instead (especially the contract muck).

No there aren't. There are ZERO. God, this site used to be something. Crap like this is just embarrassing.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No there aren't. There are ZERO. God, this site used to be something. Crap like this is just embarrassing.

FWIW, on another board I visit, a Lions fan suggested trading for Brady.

Even they weren't buying.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Doubtful and just a thought, but how ironic it would be if Cassel ended up replacing Matt Leinart in Arizona. I'm only suggesting this because, as good a season as Warner is having, he certainly isn't a long term solution for them and this year has proven how good of a team they can be with a good QB and say a few other upgrades. This is definitely an intriguing situation that I hope nets the Pats something in return and Cassel a nice contract because if he has proved anything in his time here that he deserves it. As long as he doesn't go to the Jets or Miami, I'll root for him wherever he ends up.

 

[BradyManny]

4. I get that. Brady is a game changer, like Peyton and Favre. But I say we go back to playing pre-2007 football. We don't depend on Brady to Moss for a TD 50 times to win a game. If Brady had not gotten injured week 1, but Moss had gone on IR during the KC game, we would probably be sitting in the same 10-6 situation we are now or maybe worse (assuming all the other injuries, problems etc)

YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2003 NWE 16 317 527 60.2 3620 6.9 23 82 12 85.9
2004 NWE 16 288 474 60.8 3692 7.8 28 50 14 92.6

Pretty damn good passing #s.


2001:
Offense: 6th in PPG
Defense: 6th in PPG

2003:
Offense:4th in PPG
Defense: 9th in PPG allowed

2004:
Offense: 4th in PPG
Defense: 2nd in PPG

2007:
Offense: 1st in PPG
Defense: 4th in PPG

What is pre 2007 football? I see a pretty consistent pattern here, the offense has always been as good or better than the defense.

And again, what about the issue of Brady's unpaid bonus money?

 

[DaBruinz]

I am very intrigued to see how this shakes out. Franchise no Franchise and where does he go. I am not overly concerned with franchising him as there are benifits to just letting him go like the added cap space (yes I know you get it back when the trade goes down but what then you need at the start of FA) and there are benifits to franchising him like the draft pick compensation.

I am much more intrigues by the where. I could certainly live with the lions though for his sake I hope he does better. A lot have thrown out the Vikings and that would be good because he could really help them as they are QB desperate but no WR like Calvin for him there. I hope he ends up with the Bucs, Gruden is QB crazy, I can't Garcia staying there, they are a playoff contender in the NFC, and they have a decent WR group.


Where do you guys want to see him go?

Though Gruden is QB crazy, I can't agree with you in regards to the Tampa WRs. Hilliard is almost done. Anthony Bryant does seem to have resurrected his career. But Maurice Stovall hasn't done anything. Michael Clayton has disappeared into oblivion. Joey Galloway is basically done as well. So, they have Bryant and a host of JAGS.

I do agree with your assessment that the Vikings have zilch in their WR corps though.

Detroit does seem like a potential place for Cassel and McDaniels to land. It would be interesting if the Pats could do a Franchise and Trade deal that would net them the Lions 2nd this year and 2nd next year. Then the Pats would be free to trade away one of their 2nd round picks this year

 

[BradyManny]

Detroit does seem like a potential place for Cassel and McDaniels to land. It would be interesting if the Pats could do a Franchise and Trade deal that would net them the Lions 2nd this year and 2nd next year. Then the Pats would be free to trade away one of their 2nd round picks this year

Don't forget the Lions have the Cowboys 1st to work with this year.

Also, the Lions plans will likely depend heavily on which QBs come out. But, personally, if they're smart, they'll realize Cassel is a much smarter way to go. First round QBs are as likely to be busts as they are to succeed, and Cassel has proven he has all the right ingredients to be a good starter in this league, with the exception of the ability to throw the deep ball. Even if he's an equivalent to Chad Pennington, that's a much safer kind of QB to go with than drafting and forking over a ton of money to a young, unproven guy.

 

[PJM]

The Vikings would be his best bet, they have almost everything and if he arrived as a UFA they could draft a receiver. The Lions could kill his career unless they follow the Dolphins lead and totally restructure; just a coaching change won't be enough. The raiders likewise (and they've committed too much money to Russell to give up this early). The 49ers are also disfunctional but have a few more pieces in place and could improve more than people think (though Cassel could set a single season sacked record in Martz's QB-killer offense).

 

[DaBruinz]

How about Brady?

I was thinking about it. I may actually make more sense to trade Brady than Cassel.

Yep, it does. Right up until the point you realize that the Pats would automatically have over 10 million in dead money against the cap. Then you add in Cassel's numbers and you could be seeing about the same or MORE as a cap hit because of the 30% rule. Short term, this would hamstring them in terms of what they could do in signing other players in 2009.

This is not to say I think Cassel is a better QB than Brady, his not. But simply the trade makes more sense.

Brady is worth more on the open market (in terms of picks).

Finding someone willing to mortgage their future for one player is going to be extremely hard, if not impossible to do. That would mean that the Patriots wouldn't be able to get a good return.

And while I am pretty sure Brady hasn't had his last great game. There is a very decent possibility he has seen his last 16 game start season. He has a bad knee, and two bad ankles. Nobody ever fully heals, even if he is fully recovered for training camp he will always be at a high risk of re-injury on every sack. Cassel on the other hand hasn't taken that many that he is banged up.

Say what? When did Brady get 2 bad ankles? As for the ACL, you do realize that Cassel is just as apt to suffer the same injury by someone diving at his legs as Brady did.

Brady is in the prime of his career. Are you really willing to bet that Brady won't play another 16 game season over the next 5-6 years?

Cassel will cost less on the cap. So take the money saved and the picks players acquired in the trade and beef up the defense. Go back to playing pre-2007 Belichick football.

The combination of Cassel's cap hit and the dead money hit from Brady means that they will probably NOT save money. That it would cost them MORE against the cap and thus, limit what they could do in terms of adding other players. So, all you've done, really, is leave the Pats with less money to beef up the defense than you had before. BTW, other than 2003, when did the Pats spend a ton of money to beef up any particular side of the ball?

And if Cassel goes down the drop off between Matt and Kevin is not as great as Tom and Kevin. But it wouldn't matter cause we won't be a team that depends on the QB a ton of TDs to win. We will go back to being a defense wins championship team.

It would matter. Just like it mattered this year when Brady went down. This assumption on your part that the Pats would magically transform into a team that is based around its defense is pretty far-fetched.

Fact is we need to invest more in the backup QB if Tom is the starter than if Matt is. And the starting QB costs more.

The fact is that the Pats have already invested in the back-up QB position regardless of whether its Tom or Matt leading the way. The Pats have O'Connell and Gutierrez there regardless.

 

[DaBruinz]

Moss agreed to that cause he wanted to be a Patriot.

Why is Matt going to tear up 12 million dollars so he can get locked into a long term contract in Detroit?

Moss agreed to that because he wanted one of the best QBs in the league throwing to him. Cassel going to Detroit means that he'll be throwing to some of the best WR talent in the league in Calvin Johnson. They also have some other good WRs and Shaun McDonald would become their version of Wes Welker.

And Matt wouldn't be tearing up 12 million dollars. You don't seem to realize that Cassel KNOWS that he's not going to be seeing a contract worth 12 mil a year on the open market. And he knows that the Franchise Tag is protection for the team. Reality is that Cassel would get a deal in the 3-4 year range that pays him 21-28 million with 9-12 million guaranteed. And don't forget the 30% rule. That plays into the cap figure.

Just rough numbers, on a 3 year deal worth $21 million with $9 million guaranteed, Cassel's cap would be 5.3 mill the 1st year. On a 4 year deal worth $28 million and 12 million guaranteed, Cassel's cap number would be in the 5.6 million range. And there could be other bonuses that they could throw in if they wanted. To make it more lucrative for him.

 

[unoriginal]

Matt Cassel is a young QB who has taken a lot of sacks, despite playing behind one of the better pass blocking lines in the league.

Detroit has one guy on the offensive line (Dominic Raiola) who is clearly starting-caliber in this league.

Put the two together and the career of Matt Cassel stands a very good chance of getting derailed.

Plus the franchise from top to bottom is dysfunctional and completely unsettled. Why would Cassel parlay all those years of wating pateintly on the bench for career suicide and one signing bonus? Based on his age, his talent, and the talent evaluators who have vouched for him, we know he's not some caretaker QB like Doug Pederson who should jump at any big offer floated his way. He'll make a hell of a lot more money and be happier over the long term if he stays away from Detroit (and one or two other teams...)

 

[DaBruinz]

1. Kraft loved the Drewinator just as much.

2. I will concede that. But BB cares more about what puts the team in a winning position than sweatshirt sales. The stadium will sell out either way. And win the SB and the jerseys will sell anyway.

3. I am not sure that if that is 100% true. He is here because he want a ring. He might be okay with the trade if he feels the team can still win. But you might be right. I don't know, you don't know, but BB knows. Lets assume that it is true. Then trade him. We got him for a 4th. I bet we could get a first for him now (talk about growing value). Or better yet trade him to the Raiders for Asomugha. He will go back to being a malcontent, but who cares.

4. I get that. Brady is a game changer, like Peyton and Favre. But I say we go back to playing pre-2007 football. We don't depend on Brady to Moss for a TD 50 times to win a game. If Brady had not gotten injured week 1, but Moss had gone on IR during the KC game, we would probably be sitting in the same 10-6 situation we are now or maybe worse (assuming all the other injuries, problems etc)

1) I don't agree with this. I think that it became clear that Drew was wearing out his welcome.

2) BB cares about winning. He'll go with the weapons that put the team in the best position to win. Think about that. Who is going to give the Pats a better chance to win? Brady or Cassel? Answer: Brady. Hands down. Now you take into consideration that trading Brady would hurt the psyche of this team and would hurt this team financially (salary cap), and it just doesn't happen

3) Its a known fact that Randy came to the Patriots because of the chance to play with Tom Brady. It was a bonus that it would give them a chance to win the SB.

4) You seem to be under this odd impression that this team ONLY won last year because of Tom Brady and that the Defense had nothing to do with it. I am sure you'll start making excuses as to how the defense's job was that much easier and such because the offense put the opposing team behind so much. But that would be disingenuous and totally ignoring that the team, prior to Colvin going down, was damn good against the run and pretty good against the pass.

 

[DaBruinz]

Matt Cassel is a young QB who has taken a lot of sacks, despite playing behind one of the better pass blocking lines in the league.

Actually, the O-line was horribly inconsistent for the 1st 7 games of the season and many of the 28 sacks that Cassel took was a result of their poor play. Of the 17 sacks that Cassel has taken in the last 6 weeks, many have been coverage sacks. Which are to be expected.

Detroit has one guy on the offensive line (Dominic Raiola) who is clearly starting-caliber in this league.

I have to disagree with your assessment here. George Foster is a very good tackle. Gosder Cherlius is a rookie, but has been playing well. Jeff Backus is no slouch, when healthy. Where they are lacking is the guards. And there will be FA guards that they'll be able to look at.

Put the two together and the career of Matt Cassel stands a very good chance of getting derailed.

Plus the franchise from top to bottom is dysfunctional and completely unsettled. Why would Cassel parlay all those years of wating pateintly on the bench for career suicide and one signing bonus? Based on his age, his talent, and the talent evaluators who have vouched for him, we know he's not some caretaker QB like Doug Pederson who should jump at any big offer floated his way. He'll make a hell of a lot more money and be happier over the long term if he stays away from Detroit (and one or two other teams...)

You are making an awful assumption that it would be career suicide for Cassel to go to Detroit when, on offense, they have the makings for a very potent team. And, considering that the biggest issue (Matt Millen) is gone, Detroit, with a new coach and new GM, is poised to change things around in a hurry. One only has to look at how Atlanta has changed to see the potential for Detroit.

 

[DaBruinz]

Don't forget the Lions have the Cowboys 1st to work with this year.

Also, the Lions plans will likely depend heavily on which QBs come out. But, personally, if they're smart, they'll realize Cassel is a much smarter way to go. First round QBs are as likely to be busts as they are to succeed, and Cassel has proven he has all the right ingredients to be a good starter in this league, with the exception of the ability to throw the deep ball. Even if he's an equivalent to Chad Pennington, that's a much safer kind of QB to go with than drafting and forking over a ton of money to a young, unproven guy.

Actually, I had forgotten that. That extra pick would allow them, with the proper scouting, to add 2 impact players to this team. If they focused on the O-line (Guard) and D-line, they could turn this team around in a hurry. Cassel is a clear upgrade over Orlovsky and with Johnson, Furrey, and McDonald, they've got a very good corps of receivers. Add into the mix, the likes of Kevin Smith and Rudi Johnson and that's a pretty potent offense.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Vikings would be his best bet, they have almost everything and if he arrived as a UFA they could draft a receiver. The Lions could kill his career unless they follow the Dolphins lead and totally restructure; just a coaching change won't be enough. The raiders likewise (and they've committed too much money to Russell to give up this early). The 49ers are also disfunctional but have a few more pieces in place and could improve more than people think (though Cassel could set a single season sacked record in Martz's QB-killer offense).

I am curious as to why you believe that the Vikings, who have nothing but JAGS at WR, would be Cassel's best bet?

 

[JSn]

I willing to scribble it on the bricks, Cassel goes to Tampa Bay.

Also, it's easy to get emotional or crazy, but Cassel is smart. Why else would he sit quietly behind other QB's for so long?

He's not going to take $12-$14M for one year to hide behind Brady while his value massively erodes. He will work with the team to benefit them both. Guaranteed. We've seen enough evidence that he's a team player.

Brady's injured kneee won't be a concern. He's a pocket passer, mentally tough, and we've read numerous times that a repaired ACL is usually stronger than the original.

Even playing out his contract, or for another 4-6 years, we'll have the best QB in the league. Not many Qb's spend as much time in the post-season as Tom and the year off just may have a positive effect.

Thanks DaBruinz for pointing out the cost of letting Brady run, I hadn't thought of that at all. Really, there are two many arguments against keeping Matt over Tom. And it doesn't compare in any tangible way to the Brady/Bledsoe situation. I'm excited about Sunday's game and how this season could turn out. I am also excited about the resumption of the revenge tour (which lasted all of a few game-minutes this year).

Exciting times for Pats fans.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Great link. Thanks. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out. I know some think we'd be "unfair" to Cassel to Franchise him but I think we'll end up Franchising him while letting him make a deal on the "open" market by being very reasonable in our asking price. I don't expect us to hijack a team and limit Cassel's options but I expect us to get a draft pick back, something like a #2, so we don't lose him for nothing - and the comp pick could be nothing if we're active in FA.

terrific analysis, with which i completely concur...however, we are both assuming that Tommy is ready or just about ready on day one...